Narrator: Making It Grow is brought to you in part by certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod farms and McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation, and Farm Bureau insurance and BOONE HALL farms.

♪ Amanda: Good evening, and thank you for joining us on Making It Grow.

We're so happy to have you with us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

And I'm a Clemson Extension Agent.

And I get to come over here and learn from our wonderful guests.

Every week.

We have some fun things for you, too.

We have some a wonderful segment about swallowtail kites, which a lot of people haven't seen.

And then Barbara Smith, our delightful cohort up at Clemson and has a wonderful yard and she's going to tell us about planting daffodils, the bulb for the South, and Terasa Lott we're so thrilled to have you at this because you make life so easy for us, you put things on Facebook page, and you take time out from your main duties as the master Gordon Cor... coordinator to come over and help us.

Terasa: Thank you, Amanda.

It's my pleasure.

And I have lots of help.

It's certainly not a one man or one woman show.

We'd have a great event coming up that I think you might be attending, perhaps you'll be a guest judge.

It's the south eastern citrus Expo.

That's on November 18th and 19th.

On St. Helena Island.

It is the main event when it comes to learning about or celebrating citrus.

There's some great tours that'll be going on on Friday.

There'll be educational presentations, there's a citrus contest.

And if you'd like more information, the easiest way to do that is to go onto Facebook and just look for South Eastern citrus Expo.

And you'll find all the conference details including the registration.

Amanda: And of course our friend Stan, Stan The Citrus Man.

Who we've referred to often has been with us in the past, as uhm is heading this up.

And you know, there are some weird looking citrus out there and yours.

You probably are aware of that Herrick aren't you?

Dr. Herrick: Yeah, yeah, definitely have some interesting specimens.

Amanda: Hand of Buddha or some... Yeah, anyway, but let that go.

I'm getting ahead of myself.

Phillip, Carnley is the horticulture agent over in Orangeburg Calhoun.

And I've heard you've been so nice about helping people with the spaces at the library.

Phillip: Yes, we've had several different discussions at the library and <They have a pollinator garden?> Well, we're in the process of setting that up.

It's hasn't come to fruition yet, but it's in the works.

Amanda: Yeah.

Well, there's been something there.

But your work talked about in Calhoun.

Phillip: Oh, yes.

The one in Calhoun.

Yeah, that one, that one is there and we are currently prepping beds for the fall.

Amanda: And it's so wonderful to have it right there by the library, because it's just another example of education from libraries in it.

It is okay.

And then Ryan Bean your Forestry and Natural Resources agent and we always have fun with you.

Because you're always thinking of new things to do forestrey is, not just cutting down trees anymore.

Ryan: That's right.

It's not.

We do a lot everything's going on.

People are always talking about pollinators these days.

And that's been one of our big focuses with a forestry Natural Resources programs lately.

We've got a lot of things going on with N-R-C-S programs, and that's really affected what we're doing and trying to teach our clientele.

Amanda: Oh, really?

Okay.

That's what I think we're going to learn more about little more about what you're doing the pollinators later on.

That's great.

And then Herrick Brown, you have stepped into Dr. John's muddy shoes.

If I can say that, because he was always tromping us through the water.

Because you're now the curator at AC More Herbarium at the University of South Carolina.

Dr. Herrick: Yeah.

And in fact, Dr. John is one of our Star Volunteers still and I was out in the field with him not too long ago.

And as soon as we stepped out of the car, it started raining.

Amanda: Now, when he took us to SESQUI, we had to walk through the lake.

Are you going to continue that or not?

Dr. Herrick: I try.

We had a recent trip to the Congaree National Park.

Unfortunately, the water levels weren't high enough to put my students to the test.

But maybe one day.

Amanda: Well, he would always say don't you wear flip flops?

<Right.> And then you find out why with your tromping through the mud.

Oh, yeah.

Well, anyway, we thank you so much for being with us today.

Dr. Herrick: Thanks for having me.

Amanda: Okay, Terasa.

Do we got to start off with something happy and pleasant?

Terasa: We'll start off with our gardens of the week such a fun opportunity to see what you're doing in your yards and gardens like a virtual field trip across the state.

We began today with an indoor plant shared by Debbie Land a beautiful African Violet I may be just a tad bit jealous.

African Violets can be really picky and so it looks like Debbie has a green thumb.

From Don Staley, one of the last dahlias to flower before the frost.

Linda Foxwell shared a small bed that is dedicated to wildlife habitat, including butterfly milkweed and a bird bath that also has a bubbler so helps to attract birds to the area and also prevent mosquitoes from reproducing there.

Amanda: They like the sound of water moving the waters.

Yeah.

Okay.

Terasa: Virginia Kirwan shared her flowers.

She said the cooler weather is making the color intense in my garden Bidens campfire flame honey Petunia and chrysanthemum are stealing the show.

And then we finish off with Ryan's pink mum sent in by Gloria Wade and that is one of my favorite old fashioned mums.

Amanda: Oh, that is pretty and the old ones.

The old fashioned ones attract pollinators don't they?

<Sure do.> Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And Gloria Wade, I think is our friend from Aiken if I'm not mistaken.

<Yeah, that sounds right.> Yeah, a lovely, lovely person.

Okay, Terasa have you got a question we can start off with please?

Terasa: We do this one comes in from Bowman, South Carolina.

John says why is the bark splitting on my crape myrtle tree?

Should I be worried?

Amanda: Gosh, well, Phillip, I have a feeling maybe this is someone who's moved to South Carolina recently?

Phillip: It very well could be, especially if they're not very familiar with crape myrtles.

In the south east.

Crape myrtle bark is is a an exfoliating bark.

So it naturally peels away.

And you see the differences in color.

And it varies based on different species or cultivar.

And it's some are more showy than others.

And the thoria hybrids have the red and tan, which is very good, or very nice and contrast very well on the landscape.

And they are very thin bark.

So if you're ever applying fall herbicides, be careful not to get it on the bark of the tree or you can damage it.

Amanda: Oh, so often.

When you if you're working on the trunk of a tree that has nice thick bark, you can put a herbicide there if you had poison ivy or something that could not with the Crape myrtle.

Phillip: Nope is thin enough to where you can get uptake of the herbicide through into the crape myrtle itself and caused some damage.

Amanda: Okay, well, thank you for telling us that because I think a lot of people don't realize that.

That would and they would hate to lose their beautiful crape myrtle.

But now there's another problem that we may that some people are starting to have and need to treat.

preventively, I believe.

Phillip: Yes, we have a an invasive species of scale insect called crape myrtle bark scale.

And it is unfortunately very prevalent in Orangeburg, South Carolina.

And you'll notice that right now in the fall of the year, your crape myrtle will be almost jet black.

And you will, you will also see some white speckling through that black.

And that is a key indicator of crape myrtle bark scale, and it's very tenacious.

Amanda: And I have a good many crape myrtle I've selected or elected, I need to treat the seven most important ones.

And I've started treating them preventatively because I don't want to have that happen.

Because they're real tall.

And of course, that wonderful, long expanse of beautiful truck is so important and gosh, I don't want to have Phillip: you know, it'd be it'd be a shame to see something like that go to waste.

Amanda: Okay, thank you.

Okay, Brian, we've come and talk to you about the difference in areas that were burned.

And we're just left unburned and which and you think well, the burning is gonna keep things from you know, coming back and, and we found that the best better for pollinators and plants come back stronger.

And I think you're continuing to do some research on burning and its effect on wildlife and the ecology.

Ryan: Yeah, for sure.

So that The place you're talking about is on the sand hill Research Education Center in Columbia.

We've done alternating plots of annual and biannual burning, both in dormant and growing season.

And we are continuing to see changes in the plant communities.

Over time, we're getting different crops, blue stems coming in different all kinds of different flowering plants.

I'll leave the naming of the all these plants to my cohort, TJ, he's <TJ really knows.> But it has been really interesting to see that change.

In addition to the burning, we're doing disking.

So we've got disking and burning side by side of the the each season and each biannual or annual timing.

And the response to those plants have really changed.

Initially, the disk sites were mostly woody stems as opposed to grasses and forbs.

So we've we've really seen that change over time.

And we've really focused more on a lighter disking.

And so that can be more acceptable by more people, because burning can be so scary for the first time.

And it may not be a tool that you can use in your particular landscape, just this game is an option.

Amanda: Under powerlines, I wonder if I've heard perhaps if they use a longer lasting herbicide, and that's there's a lot of space under powerlines.

Have you all done some work to see if burning could possibly be used in those in those situations.

Ryan: So that's the that was our initial point of attack on this was to try to reduce the chemicals being used on this particular place.

Because if you use the chemicals they're using, you're killing everything.

Their initial attack, or their initial reason for doing the herbicide application is to control woody stems and potentially trees that may impact the power lines.

But we have an agreement with them.

And they allow us to use it for burning and for disking and other activities as long as we control those woody stems.

And I think that could be applied on other people's property as well, if we're just a simple conversation with that power company, Amanda: And the property owners Yeah, yeah, I think that's wonderful.

Well, thank you.

Because we do know, Terasa, our pollinators are in decline many of our important species are.

And so what y'all are doing doesn't harm the the, the return you get from your forestry.

Ryan: The other study we're doing is that the Pee Dee Research Station, and we're looking at use of fire in conjunction with different types of herbicides, or with just fire alone for understory control of native species own hardwood stems as well.

That's really interesting, too.

Amanda: Okay, well, maybe we'll come and visit you.

Sure.

Do that.

Okay.

Well, Herrick, you have a powerline, in your space that the power company has to keep clear.

And um, you had some suggestions of things that people might want to put there for beauty.

Dr. Herrick: Right, right.

Yeah, obviously, the power companies worry about woody stems and then posing a danger to the distribution and transmission lines, those sorts of things.

But you can grow fairly large herbaceous plants under there.

<How large can they be?> Well, as long as I think I think the limit is they have to be 15 feet away from the line.

So how are you can measure that, but you can grow some pretty tall plants, like some of our native sunflowers that can reach up to about eight, nine feet maybe.

Amanda: And so I think you've got some displayed on the wall behind Terasa, you're gonna tell us about?

Dr. Herrick: Yeah, well, I've brought in three of our native species.

And these are perennials.

These are perennial, because yeah, so they don't produce the big giant seed heads, like you'd see on some of the annual species or the kinds that you would buy in a bag at the supermarket.

But they, they propagate either by these small seeds that they produce in this flower heads or through horizontal underground stems that we call rhizomes.

And so they'll come back, they'll die down in the winter, and they'll come back each year from those rhizomes.

Amanda: Well, which ones do we have?

Dr. Herrick: Well, that's that's kind of a curious thing.

So two of these taller ones that you see here were gifted to me by plant folks are pretty nice.

They share a lot of material.

This is an easy thing to share, too.

Yeah.

Because it's, you know, rhizomatous <Yeah.> But they were gifted to me as swamp sunflower.

And if you were to plug that term into your favorite search engine, you might find something called helianthus angustifolius, which is really something that we see in ditch banks and sort of Sandy environments.

It has really narrow, narrow leaves.

And so some keys, some botanical keys, we'll actually call it a narrow leaf sunflower.

So what we have here are two things that look kind of similar to it, but are actually different species.

And one of them's actually rare in South Carolina, but through the horticultural trade has been planted pretty widely.

Amanda: Tell us which is which?

Dr. Herrick: So the the one over here on the left is is there the tallest one of all Yeah, It's something called muck sunflower, scientific name on that would be Helianthus simulans.

And then the the tall one on the right is well, I don't know the common name for it, but it's it's got fuzzy leaves and we use this term hirsute to describe the kind of fuzzieness.

Yeah, the ruff on the top, but then they're kind of Wooly on the underside.

So it's scientific name is Helianthus hirsutus.

Okay, to kind of, you know, convey that.

<For Hairy.> Yeah, for Hairy.

Yeah.

And then the third one that we have is something called Helianthus giganteus.

Which is what the botanical keys would call swamp sunflower.

Amanda: And it's the shortest of the three Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's the least tall that's funny.

And I'm think right here, my friend Anne Nulty bought me some of this.

And I believe this is the muck sunflower, is that correct?

<Right.> And, you know, it's funny, because a lot of people who grow these don't want to have them be so tall, you know, they might flop over and but um, and you can go in, I think, in the middle of the summer, and cut those back, and they still have time to set new flower buds and flower for you.

Dr. Herrick: Absolutely.

That's one of the great things about any of the composites in our area is that they tend to be late bloomers, so you can get them to bloom again, like you said, and keep the pollinators busy with something to to keep them going late into the year.

Amanda: Okay.

You know, we're always talking about the people who have to come and keep the powerlines.

Free, but um, I don't know how many of our people at home know that.

Do you want to if we, if we have a branch that's coming out, and we cut it in mid branch is going to respond by sending out a whole lot of new shoots.

Dr. Herrick: Yeah, I think I mean, I'm not not a trained arborist, I'm just a botanist.

But generally, it's a better practice to kind of go back to where that branches coming out of the trunk or, you know, connecting to another branch.

If you cut it mid stem, you'll have a lot more additional growth out there and it becomes more of a problem long term.

Amanda: And there's a forester.

Believe maybe with pine trees, you do a clear or close cut, but I think with the suit with other trees, you want to find the branch bark collar and go on the outside of that row.

Ryan: That's what allows that tree to heal and back on itself and seal off that wound.

Amanda: And I think Terasa, we probably have sheets on if you put branch bark collar, Clemson H-G-I-C, I bet you'd come up with something that explained it to you don't you Terasa: You might or pruning would probably get to there as well.

<That's true.> Amanda: Okay, great.

Okay.

I had hoped with my brother to go down to the lower part of the state and see swallow tail hawks, but they don't know where they go be every year.

And there.

So I'm still waiting for that experience.

But you get to have that experience today.

Because the people at S C E T V went down and had a long discussion with people about how different practices in forestry, Brian, that you might think, you know might be harmful, can actually be beneficial to wildlife.

And remember, trees are a renewable resource.

Emily: I was out in this South Carolina managed forest landscape doing surveys and tally in the bird species and I'm standing next to this string side zone in an open area and a swallow tail kite just flies right over my head.

And so I called our International Paper Company partner and I was like whoa, I've got kites.

♪ Narration: Almost 90% of forested land in the southeast is privately owned.

In South Carolina, it's common to see trees being harvested.

And for some people the site is unsettling.

But many landowners manage their forests sustainably, which is critical for wildlife, including the iconic swallowtail kite.

(birds chirping) International Paper in Georgetown, South Carolina uses wood to make numerous products that are useful to people.

Increasingly, the company is working with conservation partners, and sourcing wood from sustainable timber lands.

On a hot July day, a group has gathered in a managed forest near Georgetown to observe swallowtail kites and their relationship to the land.

I know we've seen some birds over here, right?

So there's a nice streamside management zone that'll be protected here.

International Paper is a global Pulp and Paper Company and we make packaging products and Paper products that people use every day.

Jeremy: We have a 2030 goal of 100% of our fiber is going to be sourced from sustainably managed forest.

And the work with the kites and the work with American bird conservancy helps us with that.

It's another important partner is the avian Research and Conservation Institute, whose director Ken Meyer has been studying swallowtail kites for decades.

Ken: Probably the main reason swallowtail kites occur in the southeastern US and not elsewhere, there has always been a large area of the southeast is covered in pine forests.

Sustainable forestry, whether it's small family, or large.

tracts that are destined for commercial applications are very suitable for kites because they have everything from bare ground.

After a clear cut to the early seedling stage when you get certain species of insects and birds and reptiles to stand like this that's older and attracting an entirely different set of small birds and other vertebrates.

Meyer and his colleague, Gina Kent, have been tracking Georgetown swallowtails for more than a year following their long migration from the southeast, to South America and back.

Gina: So when we capture a swallowtail kite, we are putting these transmitters on, we are interested in seeing what breeding birds in these areas do and how far they forage.

But then beyond that, we get to get all the other goodness that comes with tagging a bird which is their migration route, their stopover sites, their roosting areas, which are often communal, and then we'll figure out where they winter in South America, and then watch that whole process back as they come north.

Emily: We call kites our ambassador, we work with a lot of foresters, and professional forest managers.

And kites are just that big sexy bird that shows up and calls and says, Well look at me.

And then that gives us the chance to say, here's how they're using your your property, and they're nesting in a big tree on the edge of this area that was cut last year, they'll still be nest in that tree as the young forest grows up after it's replanted.

They're really benefiting from this landscape.

Jimmy: So just talking about the importance of working forest Narration: for private landowners, the forest serve as a financial investment.

Jimmy: We're managing for folks that want to invest their money into forest land, pensions, endowments, things, investors of that nature, those owners want the lands to be managed and left in better condition.

Then, when they acquired them, we're meeting economic objectives.

But we also understand we have to protect water quality, that's just a fundamental.

We have to provide wildlife habitat and diversity.

It's a public trust in the United States.

But private landowners that own or manage a lot of the habitat are really important partners, and making sure that we're protecting that public trust.

The diversity of the managed forest actually, in some cases exceeds the diversity of the forest that people think of as natural.

Narration: Professional foresters help landowners manage their timber so that the property provides a steady income, as well as habitat for all sorts of wildlife.

Amy: This particular property is about 8400 acres.

So we have a long term management plan for every stand on that 8400 acres.

If you can envision like a patchwork quilt animals, you know, they don't all need one thing.

So some of them need, you know, early successional species and bunch grasses and open areas.

Others need you know, older mature stands with with large trees for nesting.

Have having the age class diversity and the species diversity allows your wildlife to have all different habitats across that property.

Emily: So alto kites are very frequently described as the most beautiful Hawk so they have a four foot wingspan.

They love big insects like dragon flies, they also eat snakes and frogs.

So they'll actually fly along the edge of the forest and pick frogs off the vegetation or a snake of the foliage or you know, off of a branch.

So when you've got swallowtail kites, that means the whole ecosystem is providing the things they need.

Oh, that's a Kite Calling.

Hear that clickly.

Clickly.

That's a kite.

Oh, here we go.

Here's an adult.

Working forest provide clean air, clean water, and jobs from local economies, and corpse actively managed forests benefit a lot of different bird species.

There are so many different... Ken: one of the great benefits of the partnership with American bird Conservancy is a way to demonstrate sustainable forest management.

The neat thing about swallowtail kites is it's a very visible species, and you can physically go out and see them.

And I think it's a bird that really resonates with people.

Ken: This partnersh ipof ABC, timber industry and RCI has been one of the most gratifying things I've ever done.

But feel like all that we've learned about species like swallowtail kitess can be applied, sustainable forests are a really good thing for wildlife.

Emily: We lose land every year to development and people needs.

Keeping a place for nature is critically important.

And I think birds are sort of the best messengers for that.

Ken: When people say, Oh, but you know, timber industry, it looks so destructive.

If growing, timber, and making white paper and making cardboard boxes, making two by fours making plywood.

If that wasn't such a productive industry in the southeast, we wouldn't have these forests, we'd have houses.

We have all kinds of things out here that don't support the wildlife that these forests do.

Amanda: I want to thank our friends at S C E T V for the wonderful work they did on that.

And now everybody has at least vicariously seen one of the wonderful swallowtail kites was fun.

My friend Anne Nulty the bless Annes heart.

She's and of course she does.

I'm sure you've worked with her at the pollinator garden at the library brings me flowers for because she has a yard that she works in all the time.

And so I've got some of the muck sunflowers, which aren't mucky at all.

And then I've also got some I think you told me this was celosia that right?

<It is.> Terasa: And celosia is so much fun because there's some that have that kind of Spike form.

And then there are some that more of a almost like a coral form and a plume kind of form.

Amanda: Yeah, and they're dried ones that are kind of flat, you know, are just fabulous sometimes.

Yeah.

A fun plant.

And I think pretty easy.

Okay, well, I think you've probably got a question for us do you?

Terasa: There are always questions always always.

This one comes in.

It was sent as an email without an actual name.

So I just have the email address that is Martin Lynn.

So I'm not sure if that's Martin and Lynn or first and last name.

But the photograph was sent in of a tree that looked a little bit sick.

It says wondering if you know what might be wrong with my tree and what type it is?

Amanda: Uh huh.

Well, it's easy to lose your tags sometimes.

And then you don't know what you got.

Phillip did this look familiar to you?

Phillip: It did Amanda, that is dwarf Alberta spruce.

Amanda: That we're a long way from Alberta.

Phillip: We are it prefers a more high plains desert climate with little humidity, which unfortunately for it, is what you're seeing in that picture, the lower limbs are starting to shade out and die.

One thing I will say the homeowner did do is put it in a place where it could actually do pretty well here for an Alberta spruce next to the air conditioning unit.

So it's got constant air movement and a lower humidity environment.

Amanda: And how about sun what does it...?

Phillip: In the southeast you want it fairly shaded it doesn't tolerate the sun with our humidity to well.

And this this specimen is actually a rather nice specimen for South Carolina.

Amanda: So if somebody wants that look Is there some another choice they could make that would be would be happier in the humidity and the sun perhaps?

Phillip: There are there are a few options to get that very similar texture.

There are several Cryptomeria varieties that would fill that spot very nicely.

I am quite partial to Black Dragon.

It's a really nice variety that holds on to the it's cones, which is partially why it gets its name.

There are also some some believe it or not, there are some fir species F I R not F U R species that will survive and do well here momey fir is one and there's actually one grow in here in Sumter that is absolutely gorgeous.

And it's in full sun and in a person's front yard that I have not taken cuttings of yet.

Amanda: Oh, maybe one day since you're over in this direction.

You would knock on the door politely and bring it in show it to us or at least take a picture.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay, that'd be fun.

Thank you for that information.

Terasa: I should also just point out that While the location of this tree may have been kind of helping it in general, we want to make sure that when we're installing a tree, we think about that space.

And this is an extremely narrow space, right up against the building.

So probably, you know, I would not have selected that as a good location to install a tree in most cases.

Amanda: Seems like when I go to places where they have housing developments, they always put Claire right under all the dining room windows, and they get like 15 feet tall, and so that you are constantly having to do something.

So save yourself some time, make good decisions to start with.

Teresa, do we have another question?

Terasa: We sure do.

<Okay.> It seems Gladys in Kershaw has a tree problem.

She said, I've got a pine tree that's dying back there SAP on the bark and saw dust at the base of the tree.

What should I do?

Amanda: Oh, well, Ryan, what?

What's it's,... hers is dying back.

But what do you think's happening here?

Ryan: So this is a question I get all too often.

Amanda, it's two, three times a day it feels like at the very least, especially the later part of the summer.

Think about that time of year, we've gone through all of the stress of the year, the drought, the high temperatures, everything playing as hard as hard to conditions on the trees as possible.

This is going to affect our older trees more.

I relate that to humans, just like trees, when they're younger, they can deal with sicknesses and bumped elbows and things like that much easier than an older person can or just in this case, an older tree.

When those trees deal with stress from the environment.

And that environment is everything from our weather conditions to the environment thay are planted in in the landscape.

When they are stressed, they put off a smell or a pheromone that pheromone attracts pine beetles, or insects.

And in this case, I imagine they're probably dealing with an IPS beetle.

They could be any ambrosia or black turpentine beetle as well.

There's another couple that could be in there as well.

But from the description, it sounds more like the IPS black turpentine, or ambrosia.

And what you're typically seeing with the sap is it'll be from emanating from a hole in the bark.

And it could be from in between the ridges, or it could be on top of a bark plate.

And that can kind of help determine which one it is.

But without seeing it, that'd be hard to do.

But you will be able to see the what we call and call a pitch tube.

It might look like piece of popcorn stuck to the side of the tree, you might see a few or you might see a lot of them.

And those can be from the top of the tree all the way down.

Most commonly, we're gonna see the ones that are 20 feet up and down.

The bark, the dust at the bottom of the tree can be another sign of which beetle it is.

If it's a real fine sawdust, it's gonna be an ambrosia beetle.

If it looks like nerds candy, just little round pellets on the ground, that's gonna be your black turpentine beetle.

With an IPS beetle, you're really not going to have any distinguishing characters on the ground, you just see grant little granules, little pieces of wood and what we call frass or bug poop.

<Yeah.> Dr. Coy always likes to talk about the frass.

But in any case, as far as what you can do for it, you're really kind of out of luck.

There's not anything that you can spray on that tree, once the beetles are in there, you couldn't have really done anything leading up to it, except for doing your best to keep the tree as healthy as possible, you know, eliminate excessive traffic around the base of the tree and excessive fertilizing, excessive irrigation or lack of just anything we can do to help improve the health of the tree and the landscape.

Amanda: I talked to you a couple of months ago, because I was horrified I went out and I have a area that must be 100 feet 150 feet long, where the previous people 60 years ago planted pine trees.

And I'm every now and didn't want to get struck by lightning and if it's not, fortunately stopped near the house.

And we usually leave that one because it's wonderful for birds to come into.

But at the far end, there were like six of them that had the threat had the SAP oozing out.

And I thought oh my lord and heaven sent back to pay a company to come and cut them down.

I'm just going It'll be very expensive, the whole forever.

And you said they'd already left.

And and you thought they'd been a variety of them.

And in talking, the only thing we could think of was they were at the far end where they get the real afternoon, sun, <A little more stress.> Which probably made him a little more stressed than the others.

So I'm counting I'm hoping that they'll just pop back.

Ryan: Hopefully so.

So the most common thing we get is what can I spray on the tree.

And there are some herbicides out there pesticides in this case that can mute the use for bark beetle prevention, but they're very very expensive and they require some specialized training.

Amanda: So I'm using the fingers crossed method because I don't want to spend all the money I don't have cutting down pine trees.

I'm Herrick I think you've got something else to show us please.

Dr. Herrick: Yeah brought in another well the remnants of another composite flower.

Alright, so we we use the term composite because what we call the flower is actually a bunch of little flowers that are kind of In this capitulum or a little head.

And this is like what's leftover if you ever plant Purple coneflower in your yard.

The the big floppy ray petals have since fallen away and all the little disk flowers are gone.

And you're left with this cone like structure.

And this is kind of a an interesting illustration that sunflowers generally have this indeterminant inflorescence.

Like, they'll just keep on flowering and growing.

And so when.

<Like you showed?> Yeah, exactly.

So what you'll see here is that the youngest flowers are up here at the top.

And as that thing that they're attached to continues to grow, it becomes this sort of cone shape.

<Yeah.> So it kind of it kind of just an interesting little way of illustrating how sunflowers develop and go through their, their flowering, Amanda: And Treasa.

I know you've probably done this, I get those and scatter them around.

Sometimes I'll pull back the mulch, and you can really increase them pretty nicely that way.

But I think this has some value to birds doesn't it?

Terasa: Yeah, the birds will come in if you're observant, you can watch them eating the seeds.

Amanda: Just fun, so so don't be too tidy.

Right.

Dr. Herrick: Right, exactly.

And in on that note, I did have an American Goldfinch in my yard that was and I Amanda: heard that, fenches particularly enjoy them.

Well, that is just delightful.

So don't go cutting everything down once it's Yeah, once it's finished blooming.

And um, but again, you can easily increase that back.

Those bad actually comes up pretty well from the seeds.

Okay.

Well, thank you for sharing that with us.

All right, Mrs. Terasa.

Terasa: This question comes from out of state from Chris in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Chris said I attempted propagation of a Camillia.

This year, one out of three survived showing new growth.

Should it come inside for frost?

Or will it weather staying outside?

When is it ready to be planted?

Amanda: Okay.

Well, Phillip, camellias certainly do well outside.

What's there... 30 years old, and they're in your yard?

What do you think this person should do?

Phillip: Well, it sounds like they are dealing with a very young rooted, hopefully rooted cutting.

In which case, you really want to make sure that that cutting is well rooted before you plant it in your yard.

And it's sheltered from any damaging frost, they can tolerate the cold, but the frost is what causes the major damage.

So in this instance, so long as it's protected from a frost, you can harden it off or get it acclimated to these cooler temperatures that we're starting to see.

And then once it's acclimated enough, we can, you could plant it in the yard or in the landscape.

Amanda: So would you bring it on the back porch if there's gonna be a frost or cover or...?

Phillip: you could bring it on your back porch?

Put it under your carport, just somewhere where that frost isn't gonna settle.

You could also cover it with pine straw, or use a if you use a sheet or pillowcase.

Something just to keep it a little insulated and protected from that frost.

Amanda: All right, well, I'm glad she had some success.

I was gonna be a pretty flower.

Yeah, I think Teresa, we get so many wonderful things that Barbara Smith's puts on our H G I C page on Friday when she goes to the botanical garden, but she also get some beautiful pictures from her yard.

Terasa: Oh my goodness, I have always awe.

In my yard.

I would strive to have a yard like that.

Amanda: You've done a pretty good job.

But um, but she does have some wonderful ones that she's taken up daffodils and we're going to learn about how to have the easiest perhaps of all the bulbs for the South.

(silence) Today, I'm speaking with my good friend Barbara Smith.

I wish I could be there in her beautiful yard in Pendleton but this is the next best thing.

Barbara is of course a horticulturist with the Home and Garden Information Center.

And Barbara remind people of what you've managed to do on Crooked Trail.

<Barbara> Well, as I have spoken to you before Amanda, I'm a plant geek.

Cut me.

I bleed green.

I told you that before.

Today we're going to be talking about daffodils, which are some of my favorite flowers.

<Amanda> They are evident in old gardens because they are so persistent Let's talk a little bit about the scientific name and the and the common name and the multitude of different types that exist, please.

Barbara: People get daffodils and the term daffodil and Narcissus confused.

So to make it very simple, Daffodils are the common names for these beautiful flowers.

And then Narcissus is the genus part of the scientific name for these flowers.

It's interchangeable.

You'll see them called both.

Both are correct.

But it's a very simple explanation, the difference between it.

The interesting thing about daffodils is that most of them are native to the Mediterranean, but some were brought here from China and Asia.

They don't know if early colonists brought them with him when they immigrated to America, but the first recorded history of daffodils being brought to the United States or shipped to the United States was in 1740 when Peter Collison sent 40 varieties to John Bartram in Philadelphia.

<Amanda> Whew that's a lot.

And I think it's fun to talk about the way Narcissus, the name comes.

Apparently there was a Greek god, who if he wasn't handsome, he sure thought he was.

And he stared at his image in the water to such an extent that they said "We're just going to turn you into a flower."

<Barbara> I love that story.

I do.

<Amanda> And they are beautiful.

But both were there so many different types, from teeny tiny ones to great big yellow ones to white ones.

So, talk a little bit about how the community of daffodil lovers has kind of divided them up, if you would.

<Barbara> The American Daffodil Society really writes them in about 11 different groups.

One group, the first one, that I love so much are the bulbocodiums.

And they look exactly like old hoop petticoats and they're called hoop daffodils.

And you usually see them in whites and yellows but just something not for everybody.

It's a very interesting, unusual if you want something a rather bizarre in your garden to plant.

<Amanda> Then Barbara, if you would, just go through some of the others and give us an example of one or two, please.

<Barbara> The Cyclamineus have a reflex petal that pulls back in very small cups on them.

A lot of blooms on the stem.

A couple of good examples are T'et a T'et and Jet Fire.

The Doubles are multi petaled, just beautiful ones.

Candy Princess, Golden Ducat, Tahiti, White Lion, Erlicheer are good examples.

The Jonquillia are the ones that are very petite.

They have small cups several flowers per stem and extremely fragrant.

If you get a bouquet of these in your house, you will smell them all over the house.

Pipit is one of my favorites because it's a tiny little yellow flower with around the flush, the face of the cup is white.

So, it's lovely.

Blushing lady is another one that has a pink cup with yellow petals.

The large cups - These are the giants of the daffodil world.

Dinner plate, Ice Follies is probably one of the best ones you can plant if you want to multiply and come back year after year after year.

Fortissimo.

I love some of the names that they have.

They named one after Slim Whitman.

Bella Vista, Flower Record.

Poeticus is one of my daughter's favorites.

It's large white petals, has a small flat cup and the interesting thing about it, is that the cup is yellow but it's reamed either with red or green and two of those are Actaea and Pheasant's Eye The small cups, large petals with the small cups.

Barrett Browning is one.

Lorikeet is another one that's really nice.

The Tanzenetta have clusters of two to twenty dainty flowers.

Short cups and a very intense fragrance.

Cheerfulness this is the category your paper whites that a lot of people are familiar with, fall into.

And also the Geranium is white with a little orange cup.

The Triandrus have two more flowers per stem.

They do have the reflex petals that bend back in small cups but they point down instead of pointing up.

And very fragrant, Thalia is a beautiful, pure white one.

Katie Heath is another lovely one.

And then the big trumpet cups The cup stems out beyond the petals.

Chromocolor... Dutch Master.

One called Las Vegas.

That is really a pretty one.

Mount Hood is one of my favorites because it's a pure white.

And Spellbinder is also beautiful one.

It's sort of a lemon yellow.

It's kind of shot through with some white.

<Amanda> And then I think Barbara, some of the ones - some of the first ones that used to collect from family members fall into the split corona category.

Is that correct?

<Barbara> A few of them do.

The ones that I really collected from the old family ones were more of the really old fashioned types but with the split corona, they're very fancy.

It looks like you took a pair of scissors and split the corona in little pieces.

They're pressed back against the petals.

Cassata, Orangery and Slice of Life are some examples of that.

Now, in my own garden, when I first started out and didn't have a lot of funds to buy plants, I collected a lot of daffodils from my great-grandmother's ruins from her garden her name was Vicie Ginnings Holloway in Chappells.

I found the old fashion Jonquils that we love.

The one, the Campernellis, which just beautiful tiny little yellow flowers bloom prolifically.

Some of the Leucojums, which are really not true Narcissus but the Summer Snowflake or snow drops that they're called, but my garden is full of those.

I've talked before about floral genealogy so this is a very important part of my floral genealogy, I have in flowers from her garden.

<Amanda> One thing I think that this indicates is that they don't require a whole amount of care, a huge amount of care to continue to be beautiful.

So, talk a little bit about the care.

the fertilization, and the important things to make sure that they come back every year, Barbara.

<Barbara> Daffodils or narcissists are normally planted in October, November.

I have planted them, some as late as December if I want to delay my bloom time with them.

You'll see them for sale in September.

Don't plant them then.

That's a little too hot.

Keep them in a cool place.

When you do you choose your planting site, they'll grow anywhere from full sun to part shade but won't bloom well if they're in deep shade.

Good drainage.

They do not like it if the soil stays soggy or wet and moderately fertile.

The biggest mistake people make with daffodils as far as fertility goes is they put too much fertilizer.

too much nitrogen will cause the bulbs to produce a lot of foliage and very few flowers.

<Amanda> And Barbara in the past we've talked with people who do massive plantings like at Riverbanks, where they have good soil fertility overall they don't bother to put a little teaspoon or tablespoon of fertilizer in the bottom of each hole, as sometimes the companies want you to do.

They want you to buy that fertilizer and often that is not necessary.

<Barbara> No, it's not, Amanda.

The biggest thing in educating people how to properly fertilize, first of all, They here say this over and over again is soil test.

and I preach about not going out and over applying any phosphorus based fertilizers or bone meal without having the results of the soil test.

It's key.

Daffodils truly can be left alone if you do have to add a fertilizer, then you would do something like a 5-10-10, if that.

But I don't fertilize mine.

Mine bloom well.

<Amanda> The problem that most people have with not having their daffodils come back is because they should be looking at something else instead of the foliage.

Once the flower dwindles, you can cut the flower off if you want to, but that's a lot of work.

But they're going to have to replenish the bulb and that means they've got to photosynthesize.

So tell us I think you just need to look somewhere else because the big mistake is people say, Oh, I can't stand to see that foliage anymore.

<Barbara> It yellows.

It starts the senescencing and people look at the yellow foliage and when you have a lot of daffodils, that's a lot of yellowing foliage you don't want to look at.

The biggest mistake people make, is that they cut it back immediately after blooms.

Well, you're not going to have flowers or much less bulb size next year.

I've seen people bend them over with a rubber band.

I've seen them braid them.

One thing is just ignore it.

The other thing is inter-plant your daffodils in your perennial and day lily beds and then as your perennials and day lilies emerge, they're hiding that foliage.

As soon as that foliage turns brown and totally dries up, you can just reach down with your hand and pick it up off the ground.

<Amanda> Okay.

And then, Barbara you say that a good practice is to photograph where they bloomed in your yard so next year you won't go out there and dig them up.

Is that correct?

<Barbara> Especially, when you want to add I add about several hundred bulbs to my garden every year in the fall.

Of course, when you start adding that many year after year you tend to forget that I put them here or not.

Worst feeling in the world is when you put that shovel in the ground or I have a drill that I have a bulb bit on the end of, and you hear it hit the bulbs.

So, what I do is either while the daffodils are in bloom or after they finish blooming I go around with my camera and photograph places in my yard that I want to add more to the next year.

One thing that I've had a lot of fun doing in my own garden is planning what I call daffodil rivers.

So, pathways that don't use normally I will intensely plant with daffodils there They bloom you have this beautiful river and then the foliage dies back.

And then the other ten months out of the year you're back to your path again.

<Amanda> Barbara, I think you're planting this tradition of loving daffodils and narcissus in your own grandchildren and I bet the day will come in the future when they'll be coming back to Crooked Trial Farms and saying, Oh gosh, I remember doing this with my grandmother and digging some up to take to their homes and continuing that tradition with their families <Barbara> When my children, Caroline and Paul were small one of their greatest joys was from me to say to them, Go pick an arm load of daffodils and bring them in the house.

They love doing that.

They still have just wonderful memories and my granddaughter's birthday is in November.

So, every November I ship her a big box load of daffodil bulbs and she plants them and we talk about and learn the names.

>> How wonderful to start these traditions with families.

Thank you, Barbara, as always for sharing some of the highlights from your family's love of plants with us.

(silence) When you ride around the countryside, sometimes you'll see narcissists at places where houses used to be, and they're still just blooming the beautiful heads off.

So a wonderful flower.

Teresa, we've got enough time I think maybe to take one question.

Terasa: Well, let's see if we can help Stan in Elgin Stan said that I recently had a fish kill in my pond, what could cause this Amanda: Oh, Sam, or bummer, boom, I'm Ryan, what?

What are some of the factors that could cause this to happen?

Ryan: It depends on what's going on with your pond and how big it is, what kind of water source, anything that activities have been going on.

But most commonly, it's gonna be related to oxygen, that can be related to, you know, the depth of the pond being shallow and us getting a heavy rainstorm can really cause that temperature you know any stratification and the temperature in the water column can allow that to flip.

And when it flips, the water mixes, and the oxygen level really goes down.

And that can affect our fish, you most commonly see the larger fish affected first.

So they need that's what you're seeing.

You're seeing the large fish on top and maybe your smaller fish are still swimming.

That's what's going on most commonly.

Most common people we're going to say that they think it's herbicide application or some kind of fertilizer, or whatever.

But we've found that that's not the case, it's almost always related oxygen from some form or another.

Amanda: Gosh, so if you had this happen a couple of years in a row, is there anything that you could do as a pond owner?

Ryan: It's rare to see it every year, a couple of years in a row, it's typically related to you know, an early warm up followed by a cold snap early in the year, or maybe later in the year.

If we get a big storm, you know, the big hurricane or something comes through with a cold snap after it with a different fronts that move through that can cause it to happen.

Be just, it's just that oxygen being depleted for water movement.

Amanda: Are they're usually enough fish left that the pond will continue to have fish and you can fish enjoy fishing?

Ryan: Hopefully.

So that's just a something where we were more than happy to come out and take a look at it and assess that situation with that on it or if necessary.

<Oh, they could call?> Yes ma'am.

Amanda: They could call their local office and be put in touch with one of y'all.

<That's right.> Okay.

So y'all do a lot more than just trees, don't you?

For sure.

Yeah.

But natural resources.

Yeah.

Well, we sure are lucky to have all the wonderful variety of questions that y'all can help people in the state with.

Ryan: we're happy to have the variety.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, Amanda: I want to thank all of y'all for being with us and for bring such fascinating things and bringing your good minds and knowledge and Terasa.

Thank you as always, and I hope that you will join us next week right here on Making It Grow.

Night, Night, everybody.

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