Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda: Good evening and welcome to Making it Grow.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson Extension Agent, and I get to come over for continuing education every week.

Terasa, we think it's just wonderful, don't we?

>> Sure do.

And Terasa Lott is our co-host and gosh, we couldn't do anything without Terasa, but she's also got a big job as the state coordinator of the Master Gardener Program, and don't they do so much to help agents around the state and just the general public.

Terasa: They really do our Master Gardener Volunteers are extensions of extension helping their local horticulture agent to provide that research based information and working under the guidance of their local coordinator, like Mary Vargo Amanda: Yeah, yeah, and...Rob, you are down in Allendale, Bamberg Barnwell or Hampton.

Sean wrote it down, and those are you know where I am people grow cotton and peanuts and things.

I think y'all have more, y'all have more specialty crops down there.

Rob: To a certain degree.

Amanda.

Yes, we produce a lot of watermelons, a lot of cantaloupe.

We've got quite a large acreage of peaches.

That's southern most peach orchard in South Carolina.

Amanda: Oh, because peaches have to have some cold.

People don't realize, but they do need some cold time.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, we have quite a quite a range of different crops.

Amanda: Now, are they doing I've heard that they're doing some research with peaches to track their certain if you - certain varieties have different chilling hour requirements than others?

Is that correct and they're try- ing to push that a little bit?

Rob: That's absolutely correct.

Yeah, we got some low chill varieties that require fewer, fewer units of cold weather during the winter, to actually form fruit, fruit and flower buds in the spring.

For us, we typically - for us in our area, we look for about 500 chill hours, because we know we can achieve that, regularly.

When you start moving into the upstate, the later varieties can be up to anywhere up to 1000 chill hours.

So as you move further north through the state and certainly into the mountains, then the chill hours vary, allowing different varieties to come through and different harvest times as well.

Amanda: And that's good, because the early ones, I think you get a premium one.

Is that correct?

Rob: To a certain degree.

Yeah.

Just depends what's happening with other states around us as well.

Amanda: Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

And...thank you.

Those watermelons they grow down there.

I mean, we are the, we are the tastiest peach state, but I think our watermelons are also pretty phenomenal.

Rob: We have some excellent fresh produce across the board.

Amanda: Yeah, well, thank you for what you do to help the farmers.

Rob: My pleasure.

Amanda: Okay.

Mary Vargo.

You're up there in upstate in Greenville.

and you're the horticulture agent there, and you do a lot of programs where I think maybe 12 to two dozen people come.

You like hands on activities.

Mary: I do.

I was just telling Terasa, I'd rather, I don't like to hear myself talk for you know, an hour on end, just doing a Power Point.

So I love to do programs there hands on.

I just did a seed starting workshop that was really fun.

Had a bunch of people come out to our Greenville state Farmers Market on Rutherford Road.

So we went out there, had people come.

we taught about seed starting and that was the most recent one I've done, so.

Amanda: Well, and...you know, so many people.

There's so many interesting varieties out there and somebody might want to have their own kind of green bean or their own tomato.

Mary: Yeah, absolutely, and it gives you kind of bragging rights too if you start them early if you have tomatoes before everyone else too.

So that's kind of a fun thing to do and share with others so they... can make sandwiches.

Amanda: Y'all have a good relationship with the farmers market.

I mean, don't they?

Mary: Yeah, we do.

We do.

We love that venue.

We love that space.

There's a lot of really fun vendors out there.

And it's just... a great space central space in Greenville that is hopefully really accessible to everybody to come to these programs.

We like going there.

Amanda: Glad you have that opportunity.

Mary: Me too.

Amanda: Yeah, and, oh, gosh, we've had so much fun going places and doing segments we went to, you're going to see us getting on this boat and going out and almost to the Atlantic Ocean, to learn about growing shellfish at the bottom of the oceans.

It was just marvelous.

Livingston's Bull Bay Seafood.

I got to eat clams right out there in the middle of the ocean, they were pulling up, and then as you know, Rob, Nematodes can be such a problem, and now we have this new nematode that's here, that's kind of got everybody on edge.

Rob: Yeah, the guava root knot nematode is really quite a serious threat.

Amanda: So, you know, when we would go, and get tomato plants, they might have been, I mean, you know, they, there was some that had nematode resistance.

But this one, doesn't honor that resistance as I understand.

Rob: As far as I'm aware, Amanda, that's correct to kind of get around those resistance mechanisms that we've got, and resistance is miraculous.

Amanda: Thank goodness, we have y'all have continuing education and then can take that news to your growers, and try to help them overcome some of these obstacles.

It's hard enough to be a farmer and make a living.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

It's certainly not an easy industry to be in to, to survive and make a living.

Amanda: Yes, yes.

So many factors that we can't control.

Okay.

Well, Terasa, something really fun that doesn't involve nematodes and late frost and chill hours is the gardens of the week.

Have you got some for us this week?

Mary: I sure do.

Amanda.

It is fun, and we hope you find it inspiring.

It's like taking a virtual field trip across the state, sometimes beyond the borders of South Carolina, to see what you're doing in your yards, gardens, perhaps even with indoor plants or a beautiful space that you may have visited.

We begin today with Gloria Wade who shared a white double flowering daffodil.

From Angela Gobar a trio of burgundy tulips nicely potted.

Thayer Dodd shared the red tubular flowers of coral honeysuckle Lonicera sempervirens, one of my favorite native vines, from Ginny Van Housen several shades of pink from the eastern Redbud and the saucer magnolia, and then last but not least, Janice and Larry Elder took a picture they said that blooming peach trees were resplendent on our drive through Chesney yesterday, and that picture is just absolutely gorgeous.

A reminder to me, that beauty is all around us, and we sometimes are so busy, we don't take the opportunity to just notice what's going on in the world.

So take a few minutes to stop and smell the roses, if you will.

Amanda: Thank you and Thayer and her husband, for decades, had a native plant nursery down in Louisiana or Alabama, that was just known and he did massive amounts of research on the native azaleas, which, you know, the deciduous ones Yeah, Terasa: which are absolutely gorgeous.

I wish we would see more people looking to add those to their landscaping in appropriate places.

Amanda:...and smells so good.

So we're gonna... Fay and I have been talking.

We're gonna go down and visit them, because they moved back to South Carolina, because she was from Summerville.

So isn't that fun?

Yeah, yeah, they really are wonderful people.

just done a great job.

Okay.

So now, I think Terasa, you've got a question and go see how much knowledge our guests brought with them?

Terasa: A lot.

I'm sure.

Amanda: I'm just gonna throw that out there.

Terasa: This question came in to the Making it Grow Facebook page from Mike and Mike didn't share where he was from.

I think maybe in the Charleston area, But he shared a photo and said my second year Meyer lemon tree is loaded with buds and blooms.

Should I leave it alone?

Or should I remove a number of blooms to promote fruit growth?

Amanda: Okay, well, I know with even things like camellias, some people like to go out and remove some of the buds so that the remaining ones might be larger and all.

Does this translate to citrus sometimes?

Rob: Not necessarily.

Typically, with citrus, they're self pollinating.

Amanda:Okay.

Rob:So they don't necessarily don't need that secondary variety to be able to set fruit.

So if you remove too many of those flowers too early, you're not going to get complete pollination.

So you're going to end up with fruit abortion anyway.

So my advice is always to leave them to leave the flowers on let the fruit set.

The plant will naturally abort any semi-fertilized or incompletely fertilized plant without fruit, they will drop off, And then is the time to thin your fruit when you can see what you've got, and typically what we're looking for is about one to two fruit per flower cluster.

So, if we think about a citrus flower, you'll often or citrus flowers, you'll find a bunch of flowers at the end of the brunt... at the end of the branch, thin that fruit out to one to two for each flower cluster, and you'll get some really good yields.

Amanda: Okay, so go ahead and let it flower all it wants.

and then once it sets the fruit, that's the time to go in, and perhaps if there's more than the plant, could...

I mean, they're all crowded together?

You just Yeah, Rob: absolutely.

And that's also going to give you the benefit of that wonderful citrus fragrance while they're all in bloom.

Amanda: Oh, is there anything more wonderful?

Rob: It's just incredible.

Mary: They just be smaller.

Rob: Yes.

Mary: almost unusable, I guess.

Rob: To a degree, they will still size that size, or they'll have the same flavor, but it's going to put the plants under a lot more stress.

That way, what you'll find with a lot of fruit crops, particularly citrus and blueberries.

If they overbear one year, they won't fruit the next year.

Mary: And citrus already is sort of insect prone.

Rob: Yeah and cold prone.

Mary: I guess it's more stressed- that can really...

Rob: The more stress you put that plant under the less lifespan you're gonna get out of it, and the less yield you'll get next year.

Mary: Okay.

Amanda: Are people down your way, always looking for something new?

Are they incorporating citrus some now?

Rob: We're starting to see a few groves incorporated.

The trials done at Coastal Research And Education Center we've really useful for really honing in the cold tolerance citrus.

This winter did not help anybody with a lot of very tender crops.

Mary: Yeah, I know some homeowners in Greenville that do some really nice citrus that just over winter them in their garage, but bring them back out.

Amanda: Yeah, yeah, but um, you know, and sometimes you just have to say, we live in an area where if we have a horrible freeze, you just have to get some new plants and start over.

It's not the end of the world.

Rob: Absolutely, and citrus will grow in pots as well.

So that makes it much more portable to be able to protect during the coldest points of the year.

Amanda: Okay, thank you so much.

Okay, Terasa.

Terasa: This question comes in from Eric in Greenville, and Eric is seems, has been paying attention And understands the importance of soil testing, but noticed he says, "Why doesn't my soil test report nitrogen levels?"

Amanda: Ah ha.

Well, Mary, why doesn't it?

Mary: Well, I'm probably gonna rely on Rob for some of this.

But I do understand that nitrogen is something that's constantly changing within our soils.

So at that time, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to the procedure in collecting that soil sample to get an accurate result of what that nitrogen is at that time is a little bit complicated, and by the time you get your results back, most of the time, that form is either changed or maybe leached down, past some of the plant root.

Amanda: It's so soluble.

Mary: It is!

Yeah.

So could you add anything else to that?

Rob: Absolutely!

You're absolutely right, Mary!

When you're sampling from nitrogen, you'll get a snapshot of that day.

Now, temperature in the soil temperature will vary the rate of organic matter decomposition and mineral nitrogen release.

If we get heavy rainfall, that's going to leach out of the rooting zone, and you'll get a different result.

So yes, it can be a bit of a guide, but typically, within the southeastern universities, we recommend, we assume there's going to be no nitrogen leftover, hence, why you get nitrogen recommendations.

Amanda: So it's considered a limiting factor, and we just, we know we have to add nitrogen.

Rob: Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Amanda: Then, but as some farmers are doing more cover cropping, and not tilling, I think they're increasing the organic matter of their soil.

And that does help hold on to water and some nutrients, I believe.

I think there's a big educational process going on now.

Rob: Absolutely.

Anything we can do to raise organic matter really raises like what they call the cation exchange capacity, which will hold positively charged elements in the soil, making it much more basically building your fertility.

Certain cover crops will also fix nitrogen.

So the legume crops can leave somewhere around 30 to 50 pounds, an acre of nitrogen That's pretty good, actually in the soil that will be available to the next crop.

Mary: Interesting.

That CEC the Cation exchange capacity that's on their soil test report.

They should be able to see that.

See maybe what that number is, and I know sometimes there's a little bit of confusion with that number, and I think I sometimes will confuse it.

Is there a certain range that you're looking for, or does that vary from crop to crop?

Rob: That will vary by soil type to soil type rather than crop to crop?

So if we think about a deep sand, the cation exchange capacity is going to be on the low side.

Whereas if you started getting to the Upstate, where you've got much more clay, it will start to increase some more, and again, that can depend on the source.

The Rock source has been weathered to produce that clay as well.

Mary: Because clay is a small sort of particle and has all these exchange sites.

Rob: Yeah, that negative charge.

Mary: Okay.

Amanda: Some people are a little overwhelmed when their soil test report comes back because it's so complete, they give you a whole lot of information, and Terasa I think many people call HGIC because they are so accustomed to looking at them and understanding it and then translating that sometimes to help people understand what they should actually do.

So don't be overwhelmed.

(Terasa laughs) Terasa: That's right.

Yes, that's right and reach out for help.

The Home and Garden Information Center is there to help you.

you can reach them through their toll free number.

You can also email them and they have access to all of the soil test reports across the state so there'll be able to pull up your report and kind of guide you through what you need to know to help you in your yard or garden.

Amanda: Okay.

Well, those of you who've watched the show know that I love South Carolina seafood and shellfish is one of my favorites, and we got to go down and visit Livingston Bulls Bay Seafood and we had the most remarkable day they're just far...this is farming and they are doing it in some new ways that are absolutely fascinating.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (sea gulls squawking) Amanda: I am in a boat in the Cape Romain National Wildlife Refuge.

I'm speaking with Jeff Massey.

And your family has a seafood business down here in McClellanville.

>> We do.

Livingston's Bulls Bay Seafood.

Amanda: And today we are out harvesting clams and they are at the bottom of this waterway that we're in.

Jeff: Yes, we grow them in bags and it makes it a lot easier to go out and harvest them when we're ready, because you know exactly where they are.

You know how long they've been down, how big they are.

So I can send out my my two or three man crew and we can harvest 30,000 clams in an hour.

Amanda: Whoa!

(laughs) And nature feeds them.

Jeff: And all we have to do is put them out here.

And they feed on natural algae.

There's no feed that has to be given to them.

They all eat natural food.

And it's very, very cheap to feed 'em.

Amanda: And as they take in nutrients, the things that they don't want, they expel.

And you said that's making a whole nother little ecosystem.

And you're seeing that as you come out here.

Tell me what all is the result of that.

Jeff: We get just a barren mudflat out here's what we look for to plant on.

And we will actually create a whole ecosystem.

We'll plant a big block of bags.

There might be 2000 bags in one block, and then there'll be 2 million clams in that water and they clear the food out of the water.

The water gets cleaner, eat all the junk in the water.

A mature clam, the full size, clears 50 gallons of water.

Amanda: And by "junk" we're talking mostly about algae, so it's nothing that - Jeff: Yeah, well they eat a little bit of algae and then anything else that's in there, they take it, and they'll mix it, and spit it back out and it sinks to the bottom.

So the water actually gets clearer.

So they're improving the water quality where we are, but also shrimp and crabs and little fish and birds and everything.

When you get out here at low tide, it creates a whole new life area and everything lives and hides and feeds and grows and spawns.

And it was, nothing was there before.

There might have been a conch crawling across there, but now it's a whole circus going on.

Amanda: And we're not depleting the resources of the ocean.

There's plenty of resources in it.

When I was coming along, we didn't eat clams much in South Carolina.

I didn't think of them, and why was that?

>>Well, we just have this tradition built, built into everybody here in the South that if it didn't have an 'R' in the month, you didn't eat any kind of shellfish, oysters or clams or anything, and a lot of that was people were afraid it was bacteria.

Really, the problem was not the bacteria.

It was the fact that we needed to give the animals a chance to restart.

They all spawn.

They're all born in May.

And during the summer is when they get a chance to get going and get a little size on 'em so that they're they're healthy and they're productive again in the fall when we want to eat them.

Not to mention that they're the term we use in the industry is "poor."

They don't have a lot of meat to 'em during the summer because they burned up all their energy spawning and now everybody is just recovering and getting ready because it takes them about a year to really get ready for that big spawn.

Amanda: And so, you are able to have oysters throughout the year, though, because of the way y'all are adding, bringing them in the little babies and putting them down there so you can harvest them at the optimum time.

Jeff: That's right, we plant oysters all year long so we can harvest oysters all year long.

And so ours, we get them, really, they don't, most of them don't spawn until after they're over a year old.

So we're really getting to most of the oysters before their spawn.

Amanda: Okay.

Jeff: Right when they're starting to and it's not a big spawn for them.

So they don't lose a lot of their mass if they do.

Amanda: Tourism is such an important part of the economy of South Carolina.

And I imagine that people coming down here who are more accustomed to eating clams would help increase the demand for them.

Jeff: Dramatically so.

All the tourists really want is fresh seafood that they're used to.

They harvest clams and oysters up north during the summer.

So that's what they want down here.

So that's what we provide.

We're able to provide the shellfish to Myrtle Beach and to Charleston that all these tourists are wanting.

Amanda: And you tell me, and I can't wait, you've told me some of your favorite recipes and how you like to cook clams.

So I'm excited because now all I have to do is come down to McClellanville any time of the year, and I can have these wonderful clams that start out about ye big.

And that's what, about a third of an inch or a quarter of an inch?

Jeff: Yeah, they'll start at 4 to 6 millimeters, so it's about a quarter of an inch.

Amanda: Okay, and then you've come out with various sizes and you say different restaurants and different people, different cooks, different cultures like different sizes.

So when you open the bag there's going to be a good bit of variety but somebody is going to want something.

Jeff: That's right.

We'll pull out some of the biggest ones and they're top mix, and those are the ones people like to stuff and do things like that with, and then that little mix is what we sell and they're just they're great steamed.

They're great raw.

They're any way you want them.

I've never had a bad one.

Amanda: And then also, y'all have an oyster farming operation, as well and they can be available in the summer because they stay under the water and are nice and plump.

Is that correct?

Jeff: That's right.

We grow them in cages so we put them in deeper holes so they stay under the water all the time.

And we have very stringent requirements of what we can do when we bring them in.

You have to be back to the dock by 10:00 in the morning.

We have 2 hours to get them done.

So we take all those rules very seriously and we try to make sure we have a really good, healthy product.

Amanda: Well, I think it's wonderful that you found a way to use this wonderful ocean that we have and keep it even cleaner.

It's just a completely sustainable way of farming, and I want to thank you for coming this way.

Jeff: Thank you for coming out here.

You're welcome to come get clams anytime.

Amanda: Thank you.

♪ Oh, the clams were just wonderful.

My family enjoyed them so much.

I hope that you'll take advantage and support South Carolina seafood.

...It's the best.

I guess I could say that this is the best.

Sometimes they say I can't, but in this case I think I can.

At any rate of I was looking for hats as always hat material Terasa.

And you know I've got that little shoe button, Spirea that just sheds all over everything.

Well today I have one that's not as sheddy.

This is bridal wreath spirea.

And, isn't it beautiful, in that I often thought, wouldn't it be fun, you had a bride and she could carry bridal wreath spirea, and that's so that's coming up.

and I want to tell people when they have the spring flowering things like forsythia and spireas, don't try to cut them into a little ball, they come up arching and you want to go back every year and cut some of the oldest stems back to the ground.

So I was very careful when I did this to go down to the ground and get some of the older stems, and then I've got some kind of azalea like plant that is some kind of hybrid that's in there.

That's what the purple is, and then I've got some Edgeworthia which is this one which is the rice paper plant Isn't that what they call it?

...and...it's supposed to be extremely fragrant and today it actually is fragrant a lot of things that are fragrant it kind of depends on when you go and stick your nose up on it.

Mary: Warm weather.

I think.

Amanda: Yeah, yeah, but anyway, it's a lovely thing to have.

It's fun, funny, because it's got these long stems with just these little tiny flowers on the end.

And then this I believe, I think this is astelia.

I'm not sure., but isn't that a lovely little early, beautiful white narcissus?

A daffodil.

Anyway.

So it's fun to make a hat today, and actually this one smells a little bit good because the Edgeworthia today is actually fragrant.

Okey dokey.

So I think we've got some more questions Terasa.

So who can we try to help?

Now?

Terasa: We are going to try to help Greta from Allendale, and Gretas, question I think is one that we are seeing more and more kind of as an out shoot of COVID, and people being home a little bit more maybe than previously had been.

Greta says, I've never had a vegetable garden, but I'd really like to try.

How do I get started?

It can be overwhelming, right?

Like, where do I start?

Amanda: Well, especially if you get a catalog and you say this and every page is turned down and circled 18 times.

Terasa: Start small.

Right?

Rob: Definitely start small.

That's a really good question, and one that's coming up, as you say Terasa much more frequently right now.

So in a nutshell, think about your site.

Those fruits and vegetables are going to want eight hours of direct sunlight per day.

So no, you'd know the space that you're going to put it in and make sure we're going to achieve that.

As Terasa said, start small.

A small well kept garden is going to be much more productive than a large area that we can't keep weeding.

Terasa: You're encouraging >>Absolutely.

it's much more rewarding to be able to go out and pick a small amount of very good produce, than it is to think Oh, I've got 200 square feet 300 square feet to go and weed, continuously.

So that's another good point.

Think about a water source.

Fruits and vegetables are going to require about an inch of water per week.

So if you've got a hose bib handy, and it's a nice direct sun site, that's also a really good place to start.

Know the slopes of your land.

So, if you've got an area that's prone to flooding.

That's not going to be the most ideal place to have your vegetable garden further up the slope where it's free draining is going to be much more effective.

So those are some really good key points.

There's a few more on the HGIC fact sheets, that are called planning a garden, but those are some really good points.

When you're ready, and you've got your site, always take a soil test.

That's really crucial.

That enables us to reduce the pH and make sure we get the right amount of nutrition going into those crops.

And last but not least, think about your rotation, rotating and moving crops between different families.

So that could be changing where you have your tomatoes to where you had lettuce previously, Amanda: And mention some other things that are in the tomato family because a lot of times people don't think about that.

Please, Rob.

Rob: That's really, a really good point.

So if we think about the tomato family, that the Solanaceous crops, so that's things like peppers, eggplant, tomatoes...

I'm trying to think about a few Terasa: Tomatillos Rob: Tomatillos, potatoes, Irish potatoes would also fall in that family.

Amanda: But we wouldn't necessarily think of you know, you think well, I'm rotating but you know, you may not be actually.

Rob: It's actually looking at the true families of the plants to rotate around.

That's...that's going to help in two ways.

One from a soil health point of view.

Different crops require different levels of nutrients so you can manage more effectively what you're putting out, but more importantly from a pest and disease issue.

You're less likely to get that carryover of disease from one crop to the next, or build up some things like nematodes, as we mentioned earlier.

So there's some really good resources, as I say on the HGIC website, and obviously, you can always ask people like Mary and myself.

We're more than happy to help.

Amanda: Mary, you know, we're always talking about, Tony used to say, what are the three best things that you can add to your garden, and he said, organic matter, organic matter, organic matter, but some people, especially if they're creating a smaller garden, or a raised bed garden, they just think, Oh, I'm going to put in five bags of compost, and you can overdo it, if I'm not mistaken.

Mary: Definitely, I think really what you want to aim for I know, well, this is true for raised beds, I think you want to aim for about 10 to 20% volume of compost if you're using a raised bed and you take those dimensions, and you figure out how much to add, because I know that probably throws things off and you kind of want to mimic what's supposed to be right, you don't want to overdo it, I think compost can tend to have a pretty high pH most of the time.

So if you throw that balance off, you might be planting things in this area that aren't able to access nutrients because it's out of that pH range.

Amanda:...and maybe hold the water too long, and some things like that.

Rob: That can definitely be a factor.

The source material of that compost can have an effect.

So if you think if it's made from pine, that's likely to be having acidifying effects in the soil.

So there's all those factors to consider as well.

Mary: So chicken manure, I learned this other week too it, it has a really large value of, is it potassium?

So usually, you know, varying for animal and compost that you use, you to be careful as well.

Amanda: And moderation is usually good.

Mary: Exactly.

Amanda: Thanks for starting us off on planning, and it's called planning a garden at HGIC is a good way to get started.

Rob: Absolutely.

Yeah.

Amanda: Thank you so much.

All right, Mrs. Terasa.

Terasa: Well, I can understand Kristin's sentiment, Kristin from Fountain Inn said, I'd like to add some plants to my yard that are interesting across multiple seasons.

Do you have any tips?

I think I am often tempted by something that has beautiful flowers when I walk into a garden center and nursery, a plant flower Festival, and I don't think about maybe how long are those flowers going to be there, and what is the plant going to look like the rest of the year?

Is it going to be interesting?

So how can we help Kristen, and maybe me as well?

Amanda: Oh, goodness.

Well, Mary, you have beautiful flowers.

I love flowers.

But um, this is something this because especially if you've got, you know, a larger landscape, you need to think about, well, what you're planting in front of your house.

So if it's a hedge or things like that.

Mary: Yeah, absolutely.

I feel like you know, as a gardener myself, that's something I get better and better, better at each year, I'll, you know, look over my landscape, assess it from the year before and be like, Okay, it looks really good at this time of the year, but it doesn't always look great.

You know, summer into fall, I want more out of it.

I love my garden so much, I'd love to be out there.

So I want to enjoy it throughout those seasons.

So my tip would be go into nursery centers, and like Terasa said, Don't just be distracted by that spring bloom.

You want to have sort of a list, you want to look for something depending on your aesthetic and your sort of tastes.

I like to look for spring bloom.

So something that will fill my heart with joy, the beginning of spring.

It's going to be beautiful, but then I'm also going to look for maybe what does it form fruit is any kind of decorative fruit that will add some kind of texture or something to my garden.

Fall colors are another really good thing to look for.

In some plants, you can hit all of those aesthetic or seasons of interest in one plant.

Some plants you can't.

But if you go into a nursery center, looking to hit all of those marks of winter interest, and spring blooming, all those kinds of things, you can fill your garden with something that's delightful to be in year round.

So make a list before you go.

Terasa: ...You hit the nail on the head.

It's about planning, right, you can certainly change your plan.

But having an idea and doing some investigation ahead of time, sets yourself up for success rather than just being overwhelmed by all of the wonderful plants that you see.

>> Absolutely.

Rob: Pick the different times to go to the nursery as well to see what's looking good at that point in time because that can really be the source of wonder And inspiration And think ah I've got the perfect spot.

Mary: Thinking in your head and you find it some things just work out.

Terasa: You know crape myrtles I feel like we always talk about them because we see the horrible pruning practice of topping but left pruned properly to more of a vase shape.

Great winter interest.

Oh my gosh, I think just so beautiful form and that exfoliating bark, especially on the notches crape myrtles can be just beautiful.

Yeah.

Amanda: Especially if you prune them properly.

Mary: Exactly.

Amanda: Oh, it's just so sad to see those.

Oh, back, cut back.

Mary: The Ilex verticillata with the berry production in the winter.

You know, so you've got pollinator benefits, you've got fruit produced for the birds.

So just you, I guess, broaden your horizons when you're thinking about planting.

Amanda: Well, and if you have containers, you know, you may not have a very large yard and you may but some of the things that are annuals are herbaceous perennials can be so good for pollinators, and sometimes a container can be a way to get some bang out of those, don't you think Terasa?

Terasa: Oh, yes.

Amanda: You've got your mailbox, Terasa: Yes,which is a challenging container because it's such a small soil volume.

So very, very hot and dries out very quickly.

Mary: What do you put in there?

Succulents?

Terasa: Fortunately, yeah.

It does really well.

Amanda: Well, you know, I take my dog out to walk, at my friend Ann Nulty's and Hank's place.

So right now I has a large place and he has a lot of pines, you know, many people farm pines in South Carolina, and, so I was going to show you the reason, one of the reasons our Chloris, mine at least is just so completely covered with pollen right now is that the male pine, these are the male flowers, or the male structures that produce pollen, and there are millions of them and the amount of pollen they produce is unbelievable.

Terasa: Copious is an understatement.

(laughter) Amanda: You know, because it's, they're wind pollinated, and so there just has to be massive amount and it blows all over the place, and so now I've got to go home and get the hose out and wash the front porch too, and Edward when the days have been warm.

Edward's wanted to open the front door, I said, No, you can't open the front door, because the house has enough dust in it without that.

But anyway, so beautiful longleaf pines, and we were looking at and right now, there's this interesting structure on them, or part of the growth, you can see that are, these are the leaves.

And of course, we call them needles, but you can see that they are long.

And this is called the candle.

and we looked it up, and we think that this has all the new pine, this is the new growth for next year, and...the pine cones are growing This is the growing tip.

So this is what's going to grow and add to the pine trees' size and that the needles are in here, but isn't it beautiful right now like that?

Terasa: Is it soft.

It looks soft.

Amanda: Yeah it is.

It's not soft to bend.

Well, it's a little bit flexible.

Yeah.

I haven't pulled, I haven't opened it to try to see what's in it, because I just got one off the tree, but maybe we will.

But anyway, um, you know, and I think people need to remember too that tree farming.

It's a renewable resource.

And so sometimes it looks it, you know, makes a little hole in our heart, we go by someplace and it's been cut, but they're always replanting, and it's a renewable resource, Terasa: That's right.

I've been volunteering with wood magic offered by the Forestry Commission and many partners to educate youth about trees and the importance in South Carolina.

And they say that for every one tree that is cut in South Carolina, that five are planted in its place.

So like you say, it does seem, it saddens our heart a little bit, but it is a renewable resource.

Amanda: and would, their managed, pine plantations are managed.

You know, they're some people now are planting farther apart, and there's room inside for some other things to be planted in there so that they support more wildlife.

I think a lot of people who are doing this, are doing it because they want to make a profit.

And of course, all people should make a profit in farming.

But also they want to make it ecologically sustainable, and try to, if you can make some little tweaks And, you know, and changes so that some other things can go in there and it can support more things.

But anyway, beautiful pine trees that a lot of people I know, went to college on pines.

(Amanda laughs) Not necessarily the lottery, but families that you know that, 20 or 30 years ago said I'm going to plant I've got some extra property, I'm gonna plant some pine so that I could send my kids to school.

Terasa: We have our whole forestry and wildlife team.

So we've had them on the show a few times and talk about they can help land owners who are managing for pines and like you said wildlife, to help them in that industry as well.

Amanda: Yeah, thank you so much.

As we talked earlier about some problems that face some of our farmers.

Nematodes have been one of the past but we've had a lot of work done on plants so that some of them have nematode resistance, but there's a new nematode that's here now and unfortunately right now it's causing a lot of problems but um, thank goodness, the US Department of Agriculture and Clemson Extension are on it.

♪ Amanda: We are at the Dorr farm outside of Sumter, South Carolina and I'm speaking with William Rutter, who has a doctorate in nematodes and he is a nematologist with the USDA down in Charleston.

Not everybody knows what a nematode is.

So let's start with that.

William: Yeah, nematodes are microscopic roundworms that often reside in the soil.

So there's many different types of nematodes, but many are parasites of either plants or animals.

Amanda: And I feel like from my experience that are parts of the state that have less dense soils, sandier soils, is that the preferred soil for nematodes?

William: Yeah, a lot of nematodes, particularly root knot nematodes, prefer sandier soils.

Amanda: And I know from growing okra about root knot nematode, and it just seems to be kind of something that you have all the time on certain plants, and so tell me what the knots that the root knots do to the plants?

William: Yeah, yeah.

Those galls caused by the swelling, as you see on the roots interfere with normal plant root architecture.

So the plants less able to uptake nutrients and water.

And so you start seeing stunting, chlorosis and heavy infected in plants, but oftentimes, you'll see no signs whatsoever, just reduction in yield as a result of this.

Amanda: And also other things can cause stunning and chlorosis, too.

I mean, there are so many things that can happen to plants.

William: Exactly, exactly.

So really the way you know you have root knot nematodes is digging up a plant a living plant, and seeing those root nodules, those root galls on the roots.

Amanda: Now there's a new nematode that's been introduced United States called the guava root knot nematode.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'll let you tell the scientific name please.

William: Yeah, so, Meloidogyne enterolobii is the scientific name.

We've had root knot nematodes in this area for over 100 years.

Mostly southern root knot nematodes.

meloidogyne incognita.

But this nematode, new nematode is just just different enough so that all the crops that used to be resistant, Southern root knot nematode are now susceptible to this new nematode.

Amanda: And I think we can just call it the M.E.

nematode William: M.E.

That's right.

Yes, Amanda: You have gotten there's been - it's so important to agriculture, particularly in the south, that I believe y'all have gotten a grant to do some research.

What are some of the things that y'all are looking for?

William: Well, first thing we're trying to find where, in the southeast, this nematodes actually resides.

One thing, we can't just look at a infected root and say whether or not it's this new M.E.

nematode, or the southern root knot nematode.

So we actually have to take it back to the lab and run DNA test to tell the difference.

So it takes a lot of work and a lot of cooperation, farmers and growers to try that.

Amanda: Over the years, our plant breeders have come up with a lot of crops that have some resistance to root knot nematode, and so when you go to bat tomato, you can look the one that has the end in it and all that kind of stuff, but this nematode seems to overcome the resistance that has been bred into some of our most important crops.

William: That's right.

Yeah.

So far, none of the resistance gene we have commonly seen in tomato or pepper are effective against this nematode.

Amanda: And, sadly, it looks like this nematode multiplies faster and moves more.

William: Yes, yes.

Well, that's what we suspect.

So we still have a lot of research to do.

We're not really sure what all has to change in order to manage this, but we can we know that there needs to be some changes about what we plant and how we plant in order to manage this.

Amanda: So you know, we try to rotate all the time.

So if I had grown okra the year before, I might plant tomatoes there the next year, but now that's not gonna help me if my okra had this new kind of nematode on it.

William: Yeah, yeah.

So there's different non-host crops for this new nematode that really are better to plant.

One we found is peanut, corn, sorghum and cereal grains seem to be poor or non-host for this nematode.

So those would be the preferred rotational crops if you know you have this species.

Amanda: I mean, we're I am cotton and soybeans are still major crops and apparently, they would be affected so you would potentially have great crop loss.

William: That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those are not great rotational crops for this nematode, and just like the tomato situation with tomato, we have root knot nematode resistant cotton and root knot nematode, weeds in soybean and they're just not effective against this new nematode.

Amanda: Well, I think that it spread rather dramatically because it's in soil and root tissue and explain how most people plant sweet potatoes please.

William: Yeah, sweet potatoes are a particularly good vector for this, because we do have to transplant pieces of the plant in or we have to propagate it in order to make a new plant.

So often this nematode seems to be coming in on infected seed potatoes or slips that have dirt on them, Amanda: A lot of us have grown our own sweet potatoes in the kitchen, you know, and cut them off and you get a little piece about so big, and then you put that out and I think in North Carolina, there were all these places that was certified, but we just this came on us so quickly, we didn't know to look for it.

William: Exactly, exactly, you know, certified seed is the best seed you know, they've been certified to be clear and free of this nematode, and as well number of viruses.

So that is if you buy just a sweet potato out of the store and plant in the ground, you're planting everything that comes along with that.

and that probably came out of another farmer's field that might have had this nematode.

Amanda: So if you want to plant sweet potatoes, you can go to the North Carolina website, I don't think we have a certified place yet in South Carolina for people to order plants, but that would be the safest thing, and even then, do you think it's a good safety measure to In the Kitchen and not outside, wash those roots very carefully to get any soil up just in case?

William: That would not be a bad idea.

Certainly any soil, anything that has soil or dirt on it has the potential to transport nematodes along with it.

Amanda: Y'all want to find out where this is, and so you want people to go out and look at their crops, and you can't tell the difference between the two unless you or another expert gets his hands on them or her hands on them.

And so if people have crops and they see that they have nematodes, the root knot nematodes of some sort, either the M.E.

or the regular ones, you would like for them to get in touch with you and possibly submit a sample I believe.

William: Yeah, possibly.

So if it's a vegetable grower, and they see they have the iconic root knotting, we really like to test and see what species it is.

So they can get in contact with their local Clemson Extension agent, or find us on our website at: Amanda: I want to compliment you and your team on trying to find ways that we can continue to have not only those delicious sweet potatoes, but also that huge range of crops that are affected by this new, I'm going to just call it the M.E.

nematode.

Thank you so much, William.

William: Absolutely.

♪ Amanda: It really is, makes you proud to be part of the extension and the agricultural, educational community because as problems arise and they do, there are always people who are working to try to see to it that we can have the most sustainable way to tackle those problems with the least damage to the environment.

But to give the farmers a chance to grow a healthy crop and stay in business.

We do not want to lose any more of our family farms.

So I hope that you enjoyed learning about some of the research that we do to try to help people of the state, Terasa, but we have another question.

Terasa: We sure do.

This one comes in from Joanne in Spartanburg, she sent a message to our Facebook page with a photograph.

She said our camellia is getting too big and needs to be pruned.

We've never pruned it before it's in full bloom right now.

How long after the blooms fall off should I prune it?

Amanda: Okay, um, Marie Land is quite a camellia expert.

And she says camellia are trees.

And there are some now that have been bred to be smaller, but the camellia is you know, we bring something home and we don't necessarily think about how big it's going to be and they can get to be big.

And pruning can be very advantageous for camellias I think.

Terasa: that's really the first thing we should think about before we add a plant is what is the mature size going to be?

Amanda: Okay, Rob, what do you think?

Rob: Definitely think about the size of a space that we have and the appropriate site for that plant.

But yes, we can prune camellias.

My general advice is to wait until after they've flowered, and typically with anything that flowers between before June 1st, prune it after flowering.

Amanda: Now why do you think that you should wait till the after the flowered?

Because I don't do that with my camellias.

Rob: It is my preference, we've got the buds on there, we can leave the buds on we might as well get the beauty out of the plant before we prune it and then encourage it for next year, but you're absolutely right Amanda.

Amanda: I've about you know 60 in my yard.

I've an old house.

Just, I'm just giving you a hard time.

Rob: The caveats to that, that I would always suggest if there's dead or diseased branches in there prune those out at any time that's going to help your plant health and survival.

Thinning the canopy can be really beneficial to allow airflow through which can certainly help to mitigate against things like camellia tea scale.

Typically, you know you can be fairly aggressive with pruning as long as you go back to a bud facing in the right direction that you want growth to go.

So we can manipulate the size of those shrubs.

Amanda: A thinning cut would be when you went to where a branch connects with the larger branch or the main stem, and there are ways that you want to cut there too, as well.

And that will some cuts can make things bushier.

Some cuts actually if you want airflow, I think a thinning cut would help with that.

Is that correct?

Rob: Absolutely.

As you say, Amanda, there are different types of cuts and different types of pruning.

So you get the thinning cuts like you say that are going to really open up the center of that plant to allow airflow back in, you can then get the branching cuts.

So things like Hollies where you trying to do hedging, you want that thick, bushy appearance to try and go through.

Mary: A bunch of people come into in Greenville office asking about pruning, their camellias, and they're huge.

I mean, over time, Amanda: Yeah.

I've got some that are 25 feet tall.

Mary: They ask how much to cut back.

And usually I recommend, you know, not more than 1/3 of the growth because that could possibly really stress it out.

Is that generally what you recommend?

Rob: Yes 1/3 of the growth is a really good rule of thumb for any plant.

Mary: There can be some huge ones, and then all of a sudden they just get antsy about cutting it down for some reason.

Amanda: Well when we were talking about tea scale, And I read something that said the lower... Marie was saying to prune them into tree forms, if you can, and she said that the lower branches tend to be where the scale is concentrated, and I went looked in my yard.

and sure enough, the lower branches seemed to have a much heavier Tea scale population, and so I've been going out, and it works in my yard because they're not screens or anything, and so just really limbing them up some and noticing that there seems to be less tea scale.

...it's just as much like Mary: to have really beautiful architecture too.

So the more you can display that.

I know at the Botanical Garden, oh my gosh, that camellia walkway.

It's so beautiful when all of them are in bloom.

Terasa: When we think about pruning, people maybe don't always think about which tool is the most appropriate.

So different size branches require different size tools, maybe.

Rob: Absolutely.

Amanda: Hand strength.

Rob: Yeah, I mean, if we think about hand pruners or secateurs, then typically they're good to about a half inch diameter branch.

Amanda: Getting isn't as strong as it was.

Rob: Yeah, I tend to work to about half inch for myself that works for me, but reducing that down, is gonna get a cleaner cut, and again, make sure you sharpen pruners And sanitize in between cuts in one plant to the next so you're not potentially spreading pests and diseases.

Amanda: and I don't use Clorox because I get it all over myself.

So I think alcohol works for me.

Mary, what is this crazy thing you've got up here?

Mary: Yeah, speaking of pruning, Paul Thompson in York recommended this to me.

I'm trying to prune this crape myrtle that's become super crowded at the base over time.

Usually, if you've seen a crape myrtle that's been really properly pruned and sort of taken care of over the years, that was beautiful.

Yeah, three to five main trunks is kind of what you want to aim for with crape myrtles.

But they can tend to just suffer and get so crowded at the base.

So they can form some really narrow crutches and angles.

If I can get this.

So playing with it, I've never I ordered it.

So I can play with it a little bit before I start teaching about using it, but to get into those really narrow angles... Amanda: Hold still so the camera can see it.

Mary: So something that can get into those really narrow crotches super easily.

Amanda: Goodness.

This is sharp.

Mary: Yeah, I mean, for the most part, you couldn't get a secateurs in there or anything.

So I mean, this is going to be really handy at removing really crowded bases such as a crape myrtle or other shrubs-ish.

Sucker as well, like Forsythia.

Amanda: Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Terasa: So where you might not be able to get like a handsaw in there, but you can't there's just not enough room.

So you could maneuver that in there.

And just shimmy away, Amanda: When you brought it in, I thought maybe it was a dog leash, and you were going to show me how to keep my dog from pulling it.

I was thinking, this looks a little unlike anything I'd want to use it on them.

Are you very fond of your puppies?

Mary: No, no, just on crape myrtles right now.

(laughing) Amanda: I guess it was the color of the handles, but you know, actually, this is great because I have lost so many things in the garden, because you if you put this down, you know it's just going to fade into the soil.

Mary: It is and I have to paint all my tools with like, orange, I go for the craziest colors.

I mean, where are those?

Amanda: Well, thank you all so much.

I loved having you on here.

I learned so much from you today.

I hope you all learned a lot and we'll see you next week.

Night night.

♪ music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ music ends ♪ <Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina is a cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture to help consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

The Boyd Foundation, supporting outdoor recreational opportunities, the appreciation of wildlife, educational programs, and enhancing the quality of life in Columbia, South Carolina and the Midlands at large.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

Family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.