Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ > Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow .

We sure are happy you can be with us.

I'm Amanda McNulty and I'm a Clemson Horticulture Agent.

And I'm here with my co-host Terasa Lott, who's the Midlands District Director for Clemson.

And you have a lot of great agents.

We have great agents everywhere.

And you have a lot of great agents working here under you.

> I sure do, Amanda.

Approximately 39 agents across nine counties.

They are the face of extension.

And they do the work of reaching our citizens across the state and sharing that information.

Amanda> And we have, I mean, besides horticulture and agriculture, I mean, we have... home health food people.

Tell us some of the cool things we've got.

Terasa> That's right.

Water resources, livestock and forages, 4-H youth development, rural health.

It really spans the gamut.

So even though, extension traditionally in people's minds might evoke the feelings of agriculture.

We really have, I say, something for everyone.

Amanda> I know.

I think we do a tremendous job.

And thank you for trying to herd those cats.

Terasa> No cats.

[laughter] Amanda> Brad Fowler, you're the Urban Horticulture Agent down in Georgetown and Horry.

And I bet you have a lot of people who've moved there.

And they are really puzzled about what to do growing plants down here.

> That is the truth.

Yeah.

It's a whole different ball game, than, than trying to grow some stuff up north.

I tell people all the time, if you came from up north, you had an easier time growing stuff.

And if you came from way, way down south, you know, Florida area, tropical, you probably had an easier time growing stuff.

It's going to be tough, trying to get the yard and all that going here.

Amanda> Well, and, you know, people still want to plant lawns and they take, they take a lot of inputs.

Brad> They do.

Amanda> We should be minimizing water use, maybe.

Brad> Exactly.

I tell people, like, you know, keep the lawn area as small as you can because that's the highest maintenance part of the landscape.

Amanda> Anyway, and they usually in those places plant a red maple tree in the middle of a yard and they're called "swamp maples."

And they don't, I don't think they like that do they?

Brad> They don't really.

And they're not- You know, they don't last very long in those situations and that sort of stuff.

That's why we're trying to help them.

Amanda> Yeah.

Good for you.

Good for you.

We sure appreciate it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Stephanie Turner from up there in Greenwood where you also, are an Urban Hort.

Agent.

And I think you have a pretty expansive area, that you deal with Master Gardeners from, don't you?

> Yeah.

So our neighboring counties don't have a master gardener coordinator.

And so, we welcome all those folks that want to get involved with the program and volunteer.

And so, we have an area group called the "Lakelands Master Gardeners."

So that encompasses some of our, our neighboring counties.

Amanda> And tell us some of the wonderful things they do to try to help out the city of Greenwood.

Stephanie> Oh, they've been so active.

It's a really good group.

They do a lot of volunteering uptown, in the pollinator gardens.

<Yeah> Educational programs.

We've got a STEAM festival coming up, and so they'll have a little booth, and they'll be interacting with children and talking about growing plants.

And... they work with the schools.

And so they have a variety of interests.

And so that's great, they cover a lot area.

Amanda> Yeah.

Because there's something for almost all of them.

<Yeah> Yeah.

Anyway, and you often bring our wonderful friend with you and tell him "hello."

Stephanie> Oh, I will.

I'll have to say "hi" to Tom.

Yeah.

Amanda> Please do.

Okay.

And a new face.

Doctor Brandon Huber, South Carolina State, 1890 Research and Extension Research Scientist and Extension Associate.

Good Heavens.

But you're a pretty nice guy.

And I've met you before, and we're glad you're here today.

Dr.

Huber> Well, thanks for having me.

Amanda> Yeah.

And, you have, what are your particular interest over there?

Well, I do, controlled-environment Ag.

So I did my PhD in controlled-environment agriculture.

So any sort of protected growing spaces, greenhouses, high tunnels, indoors, hydroponics, that sort of thing.

But I also have a plant breeding background as well.

And I'm just a diehard horticulture- Amanda> You're a nerd.

Dr.

Huber> Yes.

That's right.

We're so happy you're here, because you got all kinds of wonderful things to show us.

Yeah, we had a great visit coming to see you when we went to see the giant watermelons and giant pumpkins.

My kids have been going, "I don't like pumpkin pie that much."

[laughter] Dr.

Huber> Yeah, that was a fun visit.

Amanda> Yeah.

And you at home... Oh, you're gonna have so much fun.

We show you that, it was just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

Anyway, Terasa, do we have some "Gardens of the Week?"

Terasa> We sure do.

You know, our viewers always come through for us and share photos of their yards, their gardens, pretty places that they've seen in the state.

Sometimes we even reach out of the state.

Today, we begin with Pamela Lane, who shared a Monarch chrysalis on a pine tree sapling in York, South Carolina.

From Chad Pinkston, he says, "The weather has been absolutely perfect for the Dahlias up in York County."

Carol Jones shared her American beautyberry, which she reports, "is thriving on St.

James Island."

Gloria Shine sent her Bernadine Clematis in Myrtle Beach.

And last but not least, this one is a little bit long.

Jenny Meetze shared a potted plant, which she says, "Grows unusual spindly shoots once a year."

And so, based on the photo, I believe this is what we call the common name "baby rubber plant."

It's a species of Peperomia.

And each of those spindly things is actually an inflorescence, a group of flowers.

But they're, they're pretty inconspicuous.

And some people say, "they would prefer to just cut them off and let it put all of its energy into the foliage."

So, today's "Gardens of the Week" brought a little educational lesson as well, but I encourage you to see all of the photos on our Facebook page.

And when we make a call for "Gardens of the Week" don't be shy, post your photos there in the comments.

Amanda> Thank you, Terasa.

And thanks to everybody who sent things in, especially that funky last one that was kinda... [laughter] Oh, y'all have such a treat at home.

Lin Ko, who is an Ikebana artist comes... came to see us and she always does fascinating things.

And she kind of ties it to the season of the year.

So I think you'll have a real good time seeing what she did.

And she had just come back from a visit to Taiwan and Japan, where she went to take extra instruction, Terasa.

How bout that?

<Wow> Yeah, but she seems pretty good at it already.

<Yes> Anyway, well, do we have some questions?

Terasa> I am sure we do.

Let's check and see what has rolled in through the extension channels.

We're going to try to help Carol, who hails from Myrtle Beach.

She said, "Our HOA has a pond that is eroding around the bank.

What can we do about it?"

It's a great question.

An area that I used to be familiar with when I worked as a water resources agent.

Amanda> Okay.

Gosh, Brad, I mean... you don't want to have junk going in there.

You want to have that pond vigorous and alive, I think.

Brad> Yeah, exactly.

And I got to shout out the water resources agents before I ever kind of get into answering the question.

They do a lot of this work too, when you're talking about ponds and what you plant around ponds.

So, a lot of times we kind of tag team that between horticulture and water resources.

But yeah, we see this like in that Myrtle Beach area.

We've got, you know, tons of HOAs and stuff.

They've got a ton of different retention ponds.

And a lot of times, that soil isn't very good, you know, especially as you move up the bank of it.

You know, it was fill dirt or something like that.

And so stuff doesn't want to grow there, very well.

And so maybe the grass starts to go away.

And so that will start to erode.

And yeah, you don't want all that dirt just moving into the pond.

So it depends on the situation and what they're wanting to do.

You know one of the quickest things is to resod it.

You know you can get a really quick, you know, stopping of the soil from moving down.

It's not my favorite, though.

I really like for people to go in there and try to amend that soil and think about planting a buffer area of some native plants, some ornamental grasses, things like that.

Amanda> Give us some suggestions of things that might work there.

Brad> Muhly grass... what's some other, you know, plants that can do well?

I mean, it doesn't have to be like water loving plants because up on that bank, it's not going to, you know- Amanda> And the ornamental grasses can be lovely.

Brad> Exactly, exactly.

There's a ton- We've got a factsheet on the Home and Garden Information Center website that talks about different ornamental grasses.

And so, going in there, amending that soil planting that buffer area, planting some ornamental grasses, mulching it well.

You know, and eventually that will help hold back on that erosion.

It will also help, with like goose control.

We get a lot of the Canadian geese in, in and around those ponds.

And it'll kind of help keep them from moving in and through those areas.

They don't like to have to go through all that... taller grass and stuff.

Amanda> Yeah.

So, how would they amend the soil?

How deep do you have to go?

Can you kind of, walk me through it a little bit.

Brad> The best thing that we have to amend the soil, especially in those areas- In those areas you've either got a really pure sand a lot of times, or you've got some nasty gumbo clay that was dug out of the pond.

Compost, is going to be our best friend when it comes to amending the soil.

So putting down two, three inches of compost and tilling that in to six to eight inches, you know, kind of as deep as you could with a rototiller.

So that's going to be the best way to amend that soil, it's going to help with, you know, nutrient holding and drainage and all that sort of stuff.

Amanda> And explain... what the retention ponds are for because we always talk about them, but a lot of people don't know why they're there.

We see them all over the place in town and everywhere.

Brad> Yeah, certainly.

And this is, like I said, this is probably one of those questions better answered by a water resources agent- Amanda> Well, I bet Terasa can tell us.

Brad> Yeah, she could probably tell us a lot more, but there's a lot of drainage in these neighborhoods, right, Terasa?

Terasa> Oh, yes.

Brad> There's a lot of water to go places.

Terasa> Yeah, I mean, they're sold to homeowners as an amenity because people like to live on the waterfront.

But, there's a much larger purpose to that water.

Whenever we build structures, we reduce land where water can soak in, can infiltrate.

And so we have to have a place for that water to go so that we don't experience flooding on our landscapes.

And so, you know, flood control is one of the primary features, or functions, I should say, of those retention ponds.

Amanda> Okay.

Brad> And people like to be able to see their pond because it is an amenity.

But it's really environmentally and ecologically it's better to have a buffer planting you know, around that pond for erosion and that sort of stuff.

Amanda> And, do they get alligators in them?

Brad> At times I have seen alligators in, in those, retention ponds for sure.

Stephanie> Not near us.

[laughter] Amanda> Yeah, we don't have them up your way.

[laughter continues] Terasa> I would caution folks to make sure, that they look at any legal considerations.

Who owns the pond, who has rights to make the changes around the pond?

Are there limitations within the HOA's "plant palette?"

It can... get pretty, sticky there.

But we do have great resources.

And for folks who, some people want that really manicured look, I think that's why they like the turf grass.

There are some sedges and things that can give a similar kind of uniform appearance, but are going to have a deeper root system to help stabilize that soil a little bit more.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Well that's cool.

Thank you.

All righty.

Well, that was a lot to learn about.

And they really are all over the place now because we've got to have them because we're just building up everywhere.

Well... what's next?

Terasa> Next, we have Sam from Hodges who said, "There is a tree near my septic drainfield.

Should I be concerned?"

Amanda> Okay, so... if you're not on city sewer and, people don't know, you have a septic tank.

<Yeah> And that's where your wastewater goes.

And that's what everybody used to have for a long time.

So what's the story with having a tree near it?

Stephanie> So you... worry about roots getting into the drainfield?

Because obviously trees are going to be seeking out water sources.

<Yeah> And so, and that would be a lovely source of nitrogen and water, right?

You know, for the tree.

And so it can clog up that whole process for the drainfield.

So you need to, make sure that your drainfield is located far enough away from any tree.

And then what is far enough?

Amanda> I know, because tree roots go forever.

Stephanie> They go a very long way.

And so they have sort of like a rule of thumb that you say maybe two to three times the diameter of the tree, of the drip line of the tree.

Amanda> Oh, the drip line?

Stephanie> Mhm, and that's just a rule of thumb, you know, to be on the safe side.

So you want to go that- So the diameter is the total distance across.

And you want to think about... the mature size of the tree.

Right?

So, not what it is right now.

<Yeah> But what it would be at maturity.

<Okay> So you don't have a problem going down the road.

<Yeah> And mostly, you know, on drainfields we have a great factsheet about, you know, managing plantings, for that.

So you want to just keep with lawn or shallow rooted plants, you know, in that area.

Amanda> Yeah, you don't want it backing up.

Stephanie> No, we don't want problems with that.

Amanda> That would not be fun.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well thanks.

<Yeah> Alright, Ms.

Terasa?

Terasa> You know, we talked a little bit about Brandon being a plant "nerd" and we mean that in a good way.

Amanda> Oh we do.

Terasa> And he brought some plants with us.

And we have kind of a theme of carnivorous plants.

So I'd like to take a look at the Venus flytrap, first.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr.

Huber> Well, we have, we have two forms.

We have a green form, which is more of a traditional one that you typically see.

And then we have a red form, here.

Amanda> Look at that.

Oh, you can hardly see it, it's almost black.

Mercy, mercy.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr.

Huber> And the cool thing about these plants is they're actually- Amanda> You have to sit it down and hold it so our camera person can get it.

He's over here.

Stephanie> There you go.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, let's talk about them.

What do they do?

Dr.

Huber> Well, they're carnivorous, so they've, they've evolved to eat- They grow in these really poor peat moss swampy soils.

So they've kind of evolved to get their nutrients in other ways.

Amanda> The nitrogen's real hard to get out of those soils, I believe.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

And I think that, you know, they have, they grow in real acidic soil too.

So they... they catch their insects and get nutrients that way.

Amanda> Okay.

But they still photosynthesize.

I think, that's their main source of energy.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

Yeah.

So they don't really need to eat, but they, they do benefit from an occasional feeding.

And... they're a very easy plant, you know, they're native to parts of South Carolina, up in Horry County near Myrtle Beach, and they're in North Carolina along the coasts.

So, they're very hardy, I mean, people think of these as tropical plants, and they're, they're just, they're a hardy perennial, really.

And you don't have to do a whole lot with them.

They just want to sit in some water in full sun, year round.

They freeze solid in the winter and they're just happy.

A lot of people try to baby them and keep them as house plants, and that's the best way to kill them.

Amanda> Okay.

And so yours can stay outside.

You've got a place where you got water for the plants that want to be somewhat submerged.

<Yeah> And they just sit out there all winter?

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

Yeah.

Them and some pitcher plants, growing there as well.

Same environment, they just sit in a little shallow, bowl of water.

And I make sure the water's always- They just hate to dry out.

They're swamp plants.

So, they're just fun to have.

Amanda> So I know you're not supposed to go and make them close up, because that takes a lot of energy and wears them out I think, if you poke at them too much.

Dr.

Huber> Well, they do have these, these little sensor hairs in them.

And so, if they hit two of the sensor hairs within a certain period of time, they'll close, but they'll realize nothing's in there and they'll open right back up.

<Okay> So you can certainly trigger them- I bring them a lot of times for kids for 4-H and such, and the kids, love just poking at them.

Amanda> Well, you want to poke at one now?

Dr.

Huber> Yeah, we could do that.

Amanda> Will that work?

Dr.

Huber> So you'll see- Amanda> We will have to do it... Dr.

Huber> Oh, yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

Whoa whoa, whoa.

He said, hold on... Is that okay?

All right, let's try it.

Dr.

Huber> So if you... Amanda> Maybe this would be a good one.

Dr.

Huber> Okay, yeah.

Maybe... Amanda> Oh, look at that!

Dang, it was so fast.

Terasa> It's like magic.

Amanda> Well, I guess it needs to be fast because if it's insect- Terasa> It could fly away.

Dr.

Huber> It's gonna fly out... escape pretty quickly.

<Whoa> Terasa> So is that red form a naturally occurring form or is that been bred to be... Dr.

Huber> Yeah, it's kind of a mutation.

There's, you know... collectors have selected different forms, and I'm sure they've all stemmed from wild types as well.

Like, for example, this one here is a variety called "Dente."

It's short teeth.

And so the color is more like a natural color, but it has these short teeth on it.

It's a very commonly cultivated, variety.

But yeah... when you go to see the wild them in the wild, there's all sorts of variations of color and different contrasts.

Solid greens, deeper reds in the trap and so on, different sizes.

Amanda> What do their flowers look like?

Dr.

Huber> So they have this flower stalk it comes up about a foot high.

And so that's the mechanism they keep- So they don't eat their pollinators, you know.

So they're eating flies, but there also need to be pollinators.

So they're... separating those two.

And they have these, they have these tall stalks with little white flowers.

And they have these little seed pods, very small little flower.

Amanda> Yeah, but still.

Dr.

Huber> And when you're in the native habitats you can, that's sometimes the easiest way to spot them is the flower sticking up above- Because they grow them on grasses, and short shrubbery and such.

Amanda> So these are the ones that are mostly here in the Carolinas.

Dr.

Huber> That's right.

Yeah.

Amanda> Isn't that fun?

<Yeah> I declare.

That really is cool.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

They're awesome plants and they grow among their pitcher plant friends and other carnivorous plants in these swampy peat moss- Amanda> And they like sun?

Dr.

Huber> They love sun.

Yeah.

So the habitats they grow in, naturally, they have to burn, they do controlled burns.

Burning's essential to keep the shrubs out.

So because these guys need a lot of sun and they're, not a great competitor against weeds and shrubs and such.

So they... they rely on that, burns and the burns actually help the seeds germinate and stuff, for some of the species.

<Okay> It's really, really neat plant very bizarre.

<Okay> Terasa> I really appreciate that you mentioned about the importance of burning because, you know, I remember the Smokey the Bear campaign and we think about fire as, as being a bad thing.

But in, in some areas it was essential like in longleaf and so in the Carolina bays.

And keeping that, shrubby and tree layer out so that our, herbaceous things, can thrive.

Amanda> And they found out that the red-cockaded- Before they really got big on prescribed burns, they found out that the red-cockaded woodpecker, they thought that would like an undisturbed area.

And they didn't like that.

They wanted, just the trees and not all that shrubbery.

So it's just... I mean, evolution, you know, that's just what they had because we just had natural burns that would come through all the, you know, lightning strikes, you know.

Dr.

Huber> And that's... mentioning the longleaf pines, that's the habitat these are found in in these pines, a lot of pine needles.

Amanda> Acidic?

Dr.

Huber> Very acidic, but wet- And the pine trees, like the longleafs and the loblollys tend to grow there just fine.

But I think they struggle a little bit because, well the loblollys might struggle because the water tables may be high, but they provide more acidity and it's... it's just a, it's such a cool habitat.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Alright Terasa?

Terasa> All right.

We have a question from Allie in Georgetown who said, "I've heard of trimming palms, into a hurricane cut.

Is that something I should be doing with my palmettos?"

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Well... Palmettos have been here a long time, and I don't know that people were out there pruning them.

I think they've kind of come through... thousands and thousands of years, but still, sometimes maybe there is something better to do.

What's the, what's the real deal on this?

Brad> Yeah.

So, I mean, if you see a palmetto out in the wild, it's kind of doing its own thing pretty well, right?

But, yeah, there is this trend- A lot of times when we purchase a palmetto tree, it will come with one or two fronds on it.

A lot of times that's done probably for transport.

So when, you know, you're moving 60 miles an hour down the road, it's not, you know, blowing those fronds, messing them up.

There may be some other reasons.

But that's actually not really good for the, for the tree because when you go to plant it, it has no way to... to photosynthesize.

To make its energy and stuff.

And so it's not great.

Now however, they're tough and they will normally come out of that if treated properly.

But at times, we also see even mature palmettos that have been planted in the landscape be pruned up to where they only have three, four, five... it looks like a little tuft on top of the, on top of the palm.

And I think at times it's been advertised as the hurricane cut because of the wind.

The wind won't catch the fronds and that sort of stuff, and blow the tree over.

Listen, we've all seen videos of Palmettos essentially bent over in half and then they, you know, right themselves and they're just fine.

And so, we really don't want to trim those palms, whether it's the palmetto or any other palms, any more than we absolutely have to.

You know, if those fronds have turned completely brown and they're really hanging down.

Sure.

Take those off.

Amanda> Well, although that's a great place for bats, I've heard.

Brad> It is.

Amanda> So I just.

I leave mine... <Exactly> all kinds of little animals go in there for shelter, I believe.

Brad> You're exactly right.

And so there's nothing wrong with leaving them.

Those fronds, the boots on the side of it, that stuff will fall off naturally.

Like I said, drive down 17 towards Charleston or even further, and you'll see ones that are doing just fine without us, interfering with them.

Now, I know at times at homes and stuff, you need to keep them off the house or whatever, but just don't trim them any more than you have to.

Amanda> Well, and they, you know... as soon as the leaf is half brown, they go up there and cut it off.

Well, it's half brown, but it's half green.

Brad> Exactly.

It's still doing something.

Amanda> And that means that the tree's got a balance going, I would think.

Don't they?

Brad> Exactly.

Yes.

Those, those fronds, just because they're starting to turn a little bit brown doesn't mean they're not doing anything still.

They're still helping that tree.

So yeah, I agree with you.

Just don't trim them any more when you have to.

I think we could probably, go with that method for a lot of things in our, in our landscape.

My brother had a place down at Pawleys Island and, he had to get on the HOA, which he didn't really want to do because it was all a bunch of, people who like to play bridge, and they never went outside and they would call and fuss that the leaves had some brown on them.

So he had to go in there and start, going to have tea parties with these ladies and try to convince them to, to understand that we need to- Brad> Just educating.

Giving some education.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

And I think, he smiled and was polite and I think he was successful.

Brad> Good, good.

Amanda> And you're smiling and you're polite and I think you'll be successful too.

Brad> I try to be.

[laughter] Dr.

Huber> I planted some hurricane cut ones at my house, and I've noticed they take about two years to really- They kind of throw some kind of ugly looking leaves and kind of bleached a little bit.

<Right> And it seems like they don't get those really dark green leaves for about two years.

But you need every leaf... you can get until you get a good, you know, until it's ready to... back in, because they they cut all the roots off and all that.

And it's like starting fresh again.

Brad> Yeah.

Exactly.

Stephanie> I always tell my Master Gardeners, we always ask "Why don't these plants grow the way they're supposed to?"

Well, they're growing the way they want to, or nature intended.

It's not the way we thought we thought of them- Amanda> And actually, their roots don't survive the movement.

It's something that's left there that's kind of a pseudo-root or something.

And so that's one reason I think they take the top off, you know, and it's going to work out.

It's going to work out.

<Right> They seem to get transported very well.

<They do> And they, you know, mostly plant trees in the fall.

But a palmetto is not a tree.

And so I think we plant those during the growing season Brad> A lot of times, we will plant them in the growing season because you kind of want them to... you kind of want them to go ahead and get going and... you know, start growing once you get them in the ground.

Stephanie> They're more sensitive to rot.

<Right> That might happen with the wet weather.

<Yes> Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Lots of things to learn about our state tree even though it's not a tree.

How bout that?

All righty.

[laughter] Well, Terasa?

Terasa> So, sometimes on the show we talk about... aggressive plants.

Sometimes we talk about invasive plants.

And I think, Stephanie, you might have an example of an aggressive plant and a particular one that thrives in shady areas.

Is that right?

Stephanie> Yes.

So I brought a little sample with me.

This particular specimen hitchhiked in to our shade garden at the extension office.

<Oh> And it... to me, has a very offensive odor.

I'll let you smell it, Amanda, see what you think.

That classic, "Here this smells bad, you smell it."

Amanda> Well, and I like to smell my dog's feet, but to me... I say they smell like aromatic rice, but.

[sniffing] Eww-yech!

Rah!

Ew!

Stephanie> Yeah, yeah.

[laughter] So, what happened is we had some volunteer... plants brought for our shade garden.

So the Master Gardeners just brought some plants from their landscapes, right?

<Oh> So we have a shade garden, and everybody's going to do some division and bring in- Yeah.

I'm sorry.

[laughter] It's very stinky.

And so this one hitchhiked.

It was not invited.

<Oh> And it came in on one of those plant divisions from somebody's landscape.

But it's still sold in the horticulture industry.

Amanda> What is it?

Stephanie> It's called "Chameleon Plant."

Amanda> Chameleon Plant?

Stephanie> Yes.

It's Houttuynia cordata.

And cordata meaning "heart shaped."

The leaf is heart shaped.

Amanda> Where is it from?

Stephanie> It is an Asian origin.

Yeah, and so, and there are some that are very ornamental looking.

They're like tricolor leaves and they make a pretty little white flower in the spring, but it completely, aggressively covered the whole shade garden.

<Oh, no> And... you know, it will crowd out anything pretty much in its area.

And so now I'm trying to manage it pretty well.

Keep it out of our rain garden, which is somewhat down the sidewalk adjacent to it.

So I'm hoping I can keep it from... encroaching over there as well.

Amanda> Has it been kind of hard to get rid of it completely?

You have to pull it pretty frequently?

Stephanie> Yes, because when you pull it it snaps and it leaves the rhizomes behind.

Amanda> Oh, shoot.

Dagnabbit.

Stephanie> So it's hard to hand pull it.

Plus it's... [sniffing sound] It makes your hands- Like I have to wear thick gloves because it'll, you know, make your hands smell bad, <Yeah> trying to pull it.

Amanda> I hope it's going to wash off with soap and water when we finish.

Stephanie> Yes, yes.

[laughter] Amanda> I don't have to eat my lunch... use my left hand.

Dr.

Huber> Probably loves that rain garden.

Stephanie> Yeah, it would, that's why I'm trying to keep it out of there.

It loves moist areas.

Very moist soils, it loves, so.

I'm trying to keep it out of the rain garden.

It's in a little shade contained garden right now, but it, yeah, it hitchhiked.

Amanda> How cold-hardy is it?

Stephanie> It is.

I don't know what zone it's... but it's hardy in our area.

We're in eight.

Amanda> Okay.

Stephanie> So.

Yeah.

But, yeah... And I guess in some Asian cultures, it's a cuisine and a medicinal, but I can't imagine consuming it.

It's very, very pungent smelling.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Who knows?

Stephanie> So I guess this is a precautionary tale.

You know, when you get divisions and transplants from your friends- You know, be careful, look through- Amanda> It's very distinctive looking.

So you can certainly spot it with that heart shaped leaf.

Stephanie> Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, okay.

Well... hats.

So, when I drive home, from Sumter to St.

Matthews, Terasa, there's one part of the road that just doesn't have anything much done to it, and it's fun to see stuff there.

And I used to see farewell to summer, which is my favorite flower.

And it's not there anymore because I like to say "farewell to summer."

But anyway, I hadn't seen it.

But anyway, this one is fun.

This is Eupatorium... something... Oh, capillifolium, but it's called "Dogfennel."

And it's a native, and, it's, is a little bit stinky, not particularly.

But it was, apparently used, to get, you know, you put it to keep the ticks and fleas off dogs.

You could put it in their bedding.

And it was used for lots of different things.

I think you'd read up about it some too hadn't you?

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

It's, apparently used to be used for fire and for kindling.

<Okay> A good fire starter.

It has that really brittle- Amanda> Yeah it does.

Dr.

Huber> And I use it as, as a windbreak in my, in my field right now to keep some of the wind behind the field, behind me.

Amanda> And I think you can rub it all over yourself and it gets, isn't it an insect repellant too.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

A very strong aroma to it.

Amanda> Anyway, and then just coming into Sumter there's a place where there are these spider lilies.

We had fun talking about them because, you know, they... they send up their leaves and you don't much notice them, and then they send up these wonderful... they're from Asia, red flowers.

And they'll be sometimes around where there used to be, a walkway, or there used to be a path at a house.

And, so they're just, they're just really fun.

And if you do want to get the... reproductive part, which is under the soil, you need to replant it immediately because it's not like a daffodil or something, you know, that dries up.

And then this is a funky thing.

It's got... it's a poinsettia that grows here, and it's pretty weedy.

Although some people like it and... because it's in that family, it has that milky sap, you know, that comes out.

Anyway, but it's kind of a funky looking thing.

And of course, the red part is not a flower.

That's just the part- And then the little part in the middle is the flower.

So it's... and you know, it's kind of cool because the big fancy poinsettias come from down in Mexico, I think.

Although now they've, been improved and people are growing them all the time.

But, anyway.

Anyway, so, if I've got any insects in my head, maybe this Dogfennel will get rid of them for me.

[laughter] And, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, so.

Well, Terasa?

Terasa> Time to try to answer another question.

Might we help Gary, who wrote in from Andrews and asked, "Should I be overseeding my lawn with ryegrass?"

I bet this is a really common question in that coastal area.

Amanda> And it might be someone who came from here, you know, where you could do things differently than maybe the best practices here.

I don't think it's the best practice, but you tell me.

Brad> Yeah, it's not normally the best practice for us.

A: I don't want to have to mow grass in the wintertime, you know.

We can take the winter off from that, but it really does, especially if you're growing a centipede grass or St.

Augustine or Zoysia.

Bermuda, you might be able to get away with it.

But for homeowners, I just don't recommend it for any of our warm-season grasses, because what happens is you, you put that winter rye out.

Annual rye.

It may need a little water here and there, so you may have to irrigate at times.

You don't really need to irrigate or fertilize at times.

You don't need to fertilize.

And then while it will go away, once we get into the middle of the summer, it's going to hang around, even after our warm-season grass has started to come out of dormancy.

So then you have competition.

You have shading out from that, from that winter rye.

And so a lot of times, what we end up seeing happen is people that overseed with winter rye, end up harming their, their kind of main warm-season grass and eventually that one starts to go away because of that overseeding winter rye.

So, for homeowners I don't recommend it.

Enjoy some, a little bit of a break, from mowing the grass.

And, you know, there's nothing wrong with letting your warm-season go dormant.

And that being it for the winter.

Amanda> You know, they have grass, green grass on golf courses and all.

But they're managed and they're soil, I mean... it's like a, it's a magical- It's not like anything- Brad> That's an engineered system that they're doing.

You know, for a homeowner, it's just not feasible a lot of times, to put all that, to do all those inputs to make sure you're not harming the warm-season grass.

Amanda> And I don't think centipede likes to be fertilized very much, does it?

Brad> It doesn't.

And so centipede actually probably suffers the most from overseeding with ryegrass because of the water, the fertilizer, that sort of stuff.

You know, centipede's a grass, you just really need to leave it alone.

As much as we want to try to encourage it to do things you can't force centipede.

You know, you just gotta let it be, let it do its thing.

Okay.

Well... I like to do flowers, but I certainly can't do them like our guest who came to see us did.

It's just such a- And everything that goes into her, Ikebana.

The vases- There's so much thought behind it.

Lin Ko is truly an artist and I think you're gonna have a good time seeing what she did last time she came to visit us.

♪ I'm so, so happy to welcome back my friend Lin Ko, and you are an Ikebana artist.

And you told me a fascinating story about the history of Ikebana.

Lin> That's true.

I think, we summarize, a little bit.

<Okay> I think back in the seventh century in Tang dynasty of China.

<Yes> Japan sent lots of students and monks to China to learn their, writing system and everything.

And meanwhile, they picked up the flower arrangement from the temple.

<Ah!> And they, back in Japan, they kept the same style all the way till the 15th century.

Amanda> And you said it was kind of straight up.

Lin> Yeah, it's straight up.

It's very basic.

Okay?

<Yes> Then, in 15th century, a monk... built a hut by a pond, and he's sitting there all day long to watch the lotus grow.

And then finally he realized there is some special kind of spirit in the style he can learn from the lotus.

So he created Ikenobo school.

They don't say school, Ikenobo.

Ikenobo is the origin of Ikebana.

<Alright> Then the prince loved it so much so the prince actually invited him into the court and started doing Ikenobo.

And then started spreading the style out.

So in the very beginning, only monk and then the elite... and then the elite, and then the... businessmen can practice Ikebana.

But until, almost, the 18th century, the ladies finally allowed to do the arrangement because Japan got some influence from the Western world.

Amanda> All right.

Lin> And the woman finally had- Amanda> Thank goodness.

Lin> Social status.

Upgraded.

Okay.

So that's the way it is.

Amanda> And so, today we're doing a slightly larger arrangement.

This would be used in a public space, perhaps, or... Lin> Yes, I think this arrangement is going to be quite wide and then tall.

Normally at home you don't really have a space this big.

<Yes> So you can easily see this kind of arrangement in a temple or in a cultural center or historical home.

<All right> Of course, you can use it in a wedding, too.

Okay?

After I finish this, I will tell you how to use it in the wedding.

Amanda> Oh, how wonderful.

Lin> It can be very, very interesting.

Amanda> Wonderful.

All right, well, let's get started.

Lin> Yes.

So this one, I have this beautiful container with a wider split on both sides.

Look at that.

Okay, it gives me a chance to use the opening to hold up the bamboo on the top.

Okay, so this bamboo I got from the wild, wild field.

<Yes> And then, my lovely husband helped me drill three holes.

Amanda> Who has a- Lin> One, two, three.

Amanda> Who has a PhD in physics and he's very good with drilling holes.

Lin> Yes.

He helped me do this.

So I will, use the three holes to do some lines.

<Oh!> Yeah, beautiful lines.

So first of all, I want to show you how to secure the bamboo into this tall vase.

Because if you don't secure them, they can be, easily tipped over.

And it's very dangerous to... break the container.

Okay?

And each of the containers in this size normally you've spent quite a lot of money in that.

This was actually made by a couple in the USA.

The husband is American, but the wife is Japanese.

<Oh> They work together to do, containers for Japanese flower arrangements.

So I tied them together- Amanda> And this is lead.

Lin> This is lead.

It's very flexible.

Amanda> Very, easily bendable.

Lin> Yeah, then you can put them into the container to do what you like.

Okay?

<Uh-huh> So, I'm going to... <Oh!> to do this.

Amanda> Oh, so you can secure it very tight.

Well, wonderful.

Lin> You can secure it.

Let's see how it works, okay?

Amanda> Whoa.

And when you got the lid originally it came in a coil like this, I believe.

Lin> That's true.

Amanda> Which is fascinating.

And then, you can use it over as you need too.

Lin> Okay.

Amanda> Okay.

Lin> And then I like to make them slightly, slanted.

Amanda> Yes.

Lin> It's not like, level.

It creates some interest.

<Yes> So let's go... this way.

[laughter] Okay.

Now I'm going to plug in some lines on the top.

And this is, what do you call this plant?

Amanda> Ligustrum.

Lin> Ligustrum.

I got it from the roadside.

Ligustrum is very heavy because lots of leaves and then lots of berries.

<Yes> So, see the magic?

I pull all the leaves away.

<Yes> And the same with the berries and they turn into this, clean line, okay?

So this is what I need, okay?

Then, I'm going to have three lines curving lines, they're overlapping each other and they create some interesting points, okay?

This is the longest one.

<All right> And then, when I want them to curve there are many different ways.

Like this one, I had to wire.

I have the wire and then I use another wire to kind of put this together.

<Yes> And then put into the water, overnight.

<Overnight?> And they will turn into this.

Now I don't need the wire I'm going to undo the wire.

<Oh> Amanda> Because overnight it assumed that... Lin> Yes.

Amanda> curve?

Lin> And then, you cut this into a sharp, narrow... so these, they can get into the hole easily.

Amanda> Wonderful.

Lin> Once you put in, you want to see this curve?

Amanda> Yes.

Lin> Okay, then the second one, probably, let's see which one again, I cut it into <Yes> this, a wedge.

<Yes> And then I plug in, the second one.

Let's see.

Amanda> And there's a real skill because if you bend it too much it will break.

So you have to be very gentle.

Lin> Okay.

The third one, let's see if this is the right way.

Yes.

Amanda> And so it's open.

It's not just everything's in a straight line.

Lin> And not the same plant.

<Yes> You have them... have the depths.

<Yes> This one go to there, and this one toward the front.

This one in the middle.

Okay?

And they overlapping each other.

So it creates some interesting interaction, okay?

<It does> And then at this point I'm going to leave it here.

And then at the end I'm going to add some interesting, thing into the, into the line.

<Yes> So this is already finished the line.

And then when you check it, if you see any of the berries too much, you can easily trim that.

Amanda> You can thin, certainly.

Lin> Yes.

Like these two overlapping each other, I can... I think that I don't need this one.

Amanda> Okay.

Oh, that does make it better.

Lin> Yes.

So the same thing, if there are something you don't feel like you can trim them, so you can move their position.

Amanda> Oh!

Lin> Okay.

I think this one seems okay.

<All right> And then here are some... like this too doesn't really have any berries.

<Yes> It's kind of loose, so I'm going to trim it off.

Amanda> Ah.

And sometimes you don't notice till you have it in the arrangement, you can see it more clearly.

Lin> That's right.

Ikebana, I have to say it's a beauty of subtraction.

It's not the adding.

The less, the better.

Amanda> All right.

Lin> You don't want too much of the material to... to, jam-pack the container.

Okay?

Here is one, I don't really need it.

This one, I don't really need it.

Amanda> And you said that Ikebana is the Heavens and the Earth, and we are the, the connecting factor... man.

Lin> That's right.

They have a term... that says Heaven, human being, and Earth.

Amanda> All right.

Lin> Three of them has to be one.

<Yes> So they all connect into each other.

So the Heaven is the nature.

The earth is what grows... or the plants and human beings in the middle.

So we are the one who take plants out of the earth, and then we arrange them, give them a new life.

<Yes> A new style.

Ideally, they have to still go with the nature's rule, but you can have your own way of arranging it.

<Yes> So some people may say, Ikebana cutting the plants... it's cruel.

Okay?

It's not.

Amanda> No.

Lin> Actually, you are giving plants a new life.

<Yes> They grow in that way.

But you want to arrange them into a... more beautiful, you know, arrangement.

<Yes> So I think I agree with that philosophy.

Okay?

So this part I think is basically done.

We can still trim some.

Amanda> All right.

[scissors snipping] And then sometimes when we do arrangement some member will say, "Lin, please trim it for me.

I hate to cut it, they are beautiful."

So you have to be really strong to feel, "Yes, I'm going to cut it."

Because we love flowers, right?

We don't want to cut flowers for no reason.

Okay?

Amanda> All right.

Lin> So now, it's pretty.

And now... this arrangement is actually composed of two, vases.

Amanda> Ah.

Lin> Okay?

The taller one, to hold the bamboo.

There is a smaller one in the front to hold the flowers.

Okay?

So, Sogetsu School has three principals.

Any material, any place, any person.

Any material means any kind of material you can make into a flower arrangement.

Okay?

From the yard, from shop, from the, from- Amanda> Roadsides.

Lin> Roadsides.

Amanda> Yes.

Or from, maybe the creek, by the creek.

Okay?

And then any person means anybody, you and me and anybody in the audience can make an arrangement based on your own creativity.

Okay?

So don't think, "Oh, I'm not a master, I'm not other stuff, I'm not going to do it."

You will love it once you touch them, and once you put it into a jar and then you will see that new life comes out.

Okay, so that's why they say "any material, any place, and any person."

Okay?

And in this, this one, because I trimmed this from my yard and I want something to be on both side.

So, not wanting, and did not come... a bigger, a bigger, like an umbrella thing.

So, I will trim half of them off.

<Yes> And then another one, half of them?

<Ah> And then combined together to form this.

Okay?

So if you use a big one, this big... then there is no spot for you to put in the flower.

So that's why, the way I handle it.

Okay?

So let me see.

Okay.

And now the magic will come... as I promised.

I'm going to add some interesting touch.

Let's do the tag.

Amanda> This first.

Lin> Yes.

This is, cotton paper, handmade.

I got it 40 years ago before I... before I left Taiwan.

At that time, I had a whole bag.

They have different colors, different shades.

It's all handmade.

And I actually tear them off with my fingers, not using the scissors.

Then I string them, punch a hole, string them.

Then I'm going to hang this over... over the branches.

Amanda> Oh!

Lin> And the second one.

Yes.

Amanda> And you said sometimes, the arranger can write messages.

If it were in a temple, it might be one thing.

Lin> Yes, they can, they can literary, do whatever they want.

Writing on the, on the tag.

Okay?

You can say, "peace, love, harmony."

Or you can say, Ikebana is a very interesting concept, but "Ichigo ichie."

Ichigo ichie means "once in a lifetime."

Amanda> Ah.

Lin> This meeting, you and me standing here will- Amanda> Which will never happen- Lin> Will never happen again.

Amanda> Not exactly like this.

Lin > Yes.

Even the next moment, we already changed.

Our minds changed Physically we changed.

<Yes> So that's why it's once in a moment, you treasure every moment you are with your friend.

Okay?

This is really like in a Japanese tea ceremony.

They focus on this.

Okay?

Ichigo Ichie.

Ichigo ichie.

Okay?

That's the Japanese way of saying it, it means "One meeting, one lifetime."

Okay.

So I put this- And if you use this in the wedding.

<Yeah> You can write some beautiful blessings for the bride and the groom.

Amanda> Ah, wouldn't that be lovely.

Lin> The green one.

Amanda> Yes.

Amanda> So you wanted them to, the colors to be in a specific order?

Lin> The colors... not necessarily, but they match the flower.

Amanda> Oh.

Oh, they do!

Lin> They match the flowers.

Okay?

I think it's very important to pick the color from the flowers.

Amanda> And harmony, it makes it even more harmonious.

Lin> That's right.

So, because I have at least 50 different shades in one package.

So I can easily pick then- Amanda> Of course.

The blue one.

Amanda> And the paper, you can feel that it's... homemade, handmade, Lin> Yes, handmade... the paper.

We can do this here.

How about that?

♪ And imagine, that would be a very personal touch, <Yeah> if it's for a wedding.

The bride and the groom, they want to write something for themselves, it would be good.

And then if you are making this for somebody's birthday... you can even write "bithday, long life" that kind of phrasing into the tag.

So I did not write anything because I think I want to leave it blank and then people can have their wish.

<Ah> Yeah.

Okay.

How is this?

Yeah.

♪ I like it.

I think this is the focal point.

<Yes> It's is here, it's not really here.

<Yes> The focal point is really, the line on top.

Amanda> And it takes us to the Heavens.

<Yes> Lin Ko, thank you again, for coming.

It's such a joy when you join us.

Lin> Thank you for inviting me.

I enjoy doing this.

♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> It's just a joy when Lin Ko comes and Terasa, she has those beautiful kimonos.

It's just so- She's the whole deal.

Terasa> She is and it's amazing how I think of Ikebana as, as kind of a minimalist in terms of the, the output, but there's so much thought and emotion that goes into the creation.

Amanda> There is.

Yeah, yeah.

And she, she shares it with us.

I just think we're so lucky to have her.

Well, can we help somebody else?

Terasa> Are you ready for another question?

Let's see.

Darla from Ninety Six said, "What are some easy-to-grow perennials that birds will enjoy?"

Amanda> Ah, well... we know that one of the things is that we want to plant larval food sources, so that the birds will have caterpillars.

But anyway, there are other things too that people want to have in the yard, that might be pretty and fun.

And also do that wonderful, feeding the bird process for.

Stephanie> Yeah.

So... this is timely because I was in the gardens uptown, the pollinator gardens, and we were doing our pollinator census count in Greenwood, this year.

And saw the birds enjoying the seed heads on, some cone flowers, and some rudbeckia while we were there.

They also have some lovely beautyberry bushes in that area, which those bright berries are attractive to birds.

And so... that was a lesson to, I think, the community of us that we don't need to go in and deadhead all of these pretty perennial flowers so promptly, because if we will let the seeds mature, then the birds can enjoy them.

Amanda> Yeah.

And... and also some of the flowers that we have, you know, that we enjoy so much have hollow stems.

And I believe that those are used by some insects too.

Is that right?

Stephanie> Nesting, yeah, cavity nesting insects like some solitary bees.

Yeah, so if you can leave those standing flowers then you have nesting sites for the bees and seeds for the birds.

And yeah, there's no need to go clean up so hastily.

Amanda> So as Brad says "Maybe just sit on your hands sometimes."

Stephanie> Sit on your hands.

Brad> Take a break.

[laughter] Amanda> Tell your husband to go watch football and not go out there and be so neaty-tidy.

Stephanie> Nature's bird feeders, instead of going and buying a bag of birdseed.

Right?

Amanda> Thank you.

Brandon, I think you've got some, what pitcher plants?

Dr.

Huber> Yeah, we got some North American pitcher plants.

So we got two species today.

We have, this is Sarracenia purperea the purple top, the Purple Pitcher Plant.

And they're short.

These are actually native to- Amanda> Whoa, whoa.

Dr.

Huber> Uh-oh.

So they trap a lot of water.

<Yeah> As they kind of collect water.

And sometimes tree frogs will nest in there.

Amanda> Oh, come on.

No.

Dr.

Huber> But they're also, are carnivorous as well.

They have these downward facing hairs within the pitcher.

And so when the insect kind of is lured to the nectar and whatnot, it can't get back up and it falls and drowns in there.

But, these are native to the whole east coast of, of the U.S., including North and South Carolina.

They grow in the same swamp habitats that pitcher plants- We have, we have... two species that you see a lot of, this short squat one, Sarracenia purperea.

And then we also have a tall green top pitcher the Sarracenia flava.

Amanda> That looks more- Dr.

Huber> More like this.

Yeah.

Amanda> I hadn't ever seen this one.

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

And these are really cool.

They're... very bright red and very cold-hardy all the way up to the Canadian peatbox.

Amanda> Okay.

Canada?

Dr.

Huber> Yeah.

So these things freeze solid in the winter.

So another, another plant that, you know great perennial if you have a wet spot that doesn't have any sort of fertilizer additives not close to the lawn.

Amanda> Okay.

And then this little fella.

Dr.

Huber> And then this is- Amanda> Bigger fella.

Yeah.

This is the White Top Pitcher Plant.

So this is from like the swamps, the Gulf... You know, Alabama, Louisiana swamps.

And this is Sarracenia leucophylla.

And so this one, produces a really nice fall pitcher.

Some of them produce, really, like the green tops, produce a nice spring pitcher where they kind of fizzle out later in the year.

These produce these really- Amanda> And be sure that you get them from reliable sources, not, you know, somebody hadn't gone out because it's illegal- Dr.

Huber> That's right.

They're all protected.

So, you know, these are all cultivated through tissue culture and- Amanda> Thank you.

Thank you.

Dr.

Huber> Yes.

No problem.

Amanda> Well, what a great thing to say "good night" on.

And we'll see you next week, right here, on Making It Grow .

Night night.

♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.