Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow .

We are delighted that you can be with us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Horticulturist and I get to come over and be here with my co-host Terasa Lott, who's also a Clemson person.

And, Terasa, I just think that we always learn so much from our wonderful guests and from the questions that people submit.

Terasa> We sure do Amanda and I think our viewers are learning too.

There have been so many times when I've just bumped into somebody at the grocery store, and they tell me how much they love to watch Making It Grow.

And use what they learn in their home gardens.

Amanda> It is nice when people stop.

I enjoy that.

<It is> I hope they won't be shy about it.

I don't think we look too scary, do you?

(laughter) Terasa> I don't think so.

Amanda> Stephanie Turner, so glad that you made the trip down from Greenwood, were you're the agent, the Hort.

Agent.

And, Greenwood, I just, I love to come up... Maybe because it was kind of far away from other things a long time ago, but they just seem to have everything...

It's kind of self-contained.

Stephanie> Yeah, it's not really on a major highway.

So, you know, maybe it's a little bit off the beaten path, but lots to do in Greenwood lots to see and a really good place to live.

Amanda> It sure is.

I'm sure y'all love being up there.

And...

I mean, just walking around the city seems to have made a real commitment towards having a lovely downtown.

Stephanie> Yes, lots of lovely gardens to stroll through.

Different themes.

And the Festival of Flowers.

Amanda> That's true.

All righty.

Well, Carmen Ketron, the Horticulture Agent for Darlington and Florence.

And...

So do you have people who want to have you give them some advice on their home vegetable garden now?

Carmen> Oh, yes.

Right now is big time for vegetables.

And so, all around the Pee Dee, they're asking about tomatoes and peppers.

And we're having a lot of really great programs on vegetable gardening, so.

Amanda> Oh, good.

Are you?

Carmen> Yeah.

I partner with not only other, horticulture agents, but also rural health and food preservation agents to do half and half workshops like, "planting and preserving" or "planting and how to eat healthy."

So, it's a lot of fun.

So, they can get both how to grow it and then what to do with it.

Amanda> Well, do you tell people that even though they plant tomatoes and hope to get some to plant some cherry tomatoes, so they will get some.

Carmen> Exactly.

Yes.

(laughter) Amanda> You know, there are a lot of different flavors of cherry tomatoes.

It doesn't have to be boring anymore.

Carmen> I'm partial to the Orange ones, of course, but, you know, we love, we love a cherry tomato.

And I really think, like the Romas, those are a real good slam dunk also.

You can get some stuff out of it.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, fun, fun, fun.

Tom Nelson is here, and you are a Lakelands Master Gardener member.

And y'all do a lot of things with, we talked about those beautiful city parks and downtown spaces.

I think y'all provide a lot of labor and knowledge to those people.

Tom> Lakelands Master Gardeners do help contribute a lot to the workforce at, the Horticulture Department in Greenwood.

All the way from beginning seeds in the city green house to actually planting them out into the various gardens across the city.

So...

There are all sorts of people who have all sorts of interest, including working on the topiaries.

<Yes> So, we're you can see us out in the city fairly regularly.

Amanda> Isn't that fun?

I'm so glad that y'all do that.

Giving back.

<Yes> Wonderful.

Well, we are going to have some interesting things for you to watch.

I was very, very fortunate to get to do an interview with Doug Tallamy.

And so that is, he's talking about things that are important to... wildlife and really people also.

It's a pretty important topic.

And then the South Carolina Botanical Gardens, they have a bird garden.

And when we got there I saw some old friends, Imtiaz Haque, a friend of mine was there, he comes every morning with friends to watch the birds.

And I think there's this whole cadre of people who are first to come bird watch, and they made this wonderful and artistic place for us to do that.

And, had wonderful plants growing there as well.

Well, Terasa, I bet some people in, out in the state have some wonderful plants growing in their gardens and have shared pictures.

Terasa> They do.

You are right, Amanda.

This is what we call "Gardens of the Week."

It's your time to show off what you're growing in your yard, your garden.

Maybe something inside of your house, or even one of the many beautiful places in our great state of South Carolina.

Today we begin with Brenda Fischer, who shared flowering dogwood in her yard in Wando.

From Deb Austin, Verbena in Longs and Deb shared that she was pleasantly surprised.

She left the pot out over the winter and had no idea that it would come back.

Plants are great like that for surprising us.

From Virginia James, she shared a raised bed growing potatoes.

Of course, we don't see the potato, we just see the foliage.

From Mary Copeland, a Lady Bank's Rose on a century farm.

And for those of our viewers who aren't familiar, the Department of Ag.

has a program that recognizes farms that have been in the same family for at least 100 years.

Amanda> Yes.

And there are a lot of them.

Terasa> There are.

And last but not least, Karen Cutter shared a photo of flats of plants prepared by her husband, who is a Greater Greenville Master Gardener.

Amanda> How about that?

So, so she actually gets some work out of her husband?

How about that?

Terasa> I'm not going to comment on... (laughter) Amanda> Accolades to her.

(laughter) All righty.

Well, do we have some questions?

Can we help some people?

Terasa> I sure hope we can.

We're going to try to help Sandy in Hodges, who said, "What are some easy to grow herbs?"

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Well, Stephanie, have you got any suggestions?

Stephanie> Well, we had some fun ones.

Maybe some less, commonly known ones that you can incorporate and also maybe enjoy as ornamentals in the landscape too.

So let's talk about, maybe as dual purpose ones.

So, this is, Golden Oregano.

<Yes> And so it makes a really great ground cover.

It's a very spreading, low growing oregano.

Maybe about to six inches tall.

Amanda> But easy enough to get some to use- Stephanie> Oh, yes, but it's milder than your traditional oregano.

So a little bit less of that pungent flavor, but, very attractive golden color.

And it's sometimes hard to grow herbs in partial shady spots.

They like, most of our herbs like full sun.

And so because of the golden color of those leaves, it actually prefers a little bit of, you know, afternoon shade.

Amanda> And would be a pretty groundcover.

Stephanie> Yeah.

So that's a nice one.

And then this is, Winter Savory, which is a little bit less commonly grown than Summer Savory.

And sort of, one of those gourmet herbs that, you know, I don't use a whole lot myself in the kitchen, but, you know, for chicken dishes and things like that.

<Okay> But it's, it's shrubby and it's a little bit woody.

Both of them are in the mint family, so really, anything in the mint family is very easy to grow.

Yeah, and Carmen's making the spreading motion.

Yes, they do spread.

So- Amanda> But these aren't going to be- Stephanie> These aren't going to be like, yeah, like... (laughter) Not like spearmint.

Amanda> Not like mint- Stephanie> So, this one will be hearty and, in all of South Carolina, but, it also can kind of, peter out after a few years.

So, you know, refresh your planting or whatever.

Amanda> Is it hard to find?

Does it seem to be out there in the trade?

Stephanie> Yeah.

It's a little less common, the Winter Savory.

You don't see it a whole lot.

Yeah, but it's a nice one.

It's very glossy green.

Very, very firm foliage.

Yeah, yeah.

Terasa> And just the contrast there between the darker green and that golden color.

It looks really nice next to each other.

Stephanie> Yes.

And I have these pretty red stems too.

Amanda> Yeah.

I can even see that from down here.

Stephanie> The, and you know, any herbs or you know, if you're a pollinator gardener, consider adding herbs.

You know, there just...

There you go, three for one.

Attractive, edible and attract pollinators.

Just let it bloom every now and then.

<Okay> Everything in the mint family is very good for bees- <Okay> Terasa> In addition to using them fresh, you can, dry them.

So I like to be able to pull out the dehydrator and, cause sometimes I get so much I think, what I'm going to do with this.

But I'll appreciate being able to use it later on in the season.

So it's pretty easy to do as well.

Amanda> Okay.

Especially, when you're making those nice winter soups and all.

<Mhm> You can really spice them up.

Okay.

Terasa> Let's see if we can move to Society Hill.

Dani has a question and said, "Should I split my gladiolus before they bloom and replant them in the spring?"

Amanda> Oh my goodness, I'm not so sure about that.

Carmen?

Carmen> Nah, let's not do that.

(laughter) One of the big things is, typically with most of your bulbs, corms, things like that, you want, you can hack at them and split them up after they bloom.

That's a general, pretty much rule.

So if they have the gladiolus growing now, leave them alone until after they bloom and they can split the corms then.

A lot of people think right now, and I've gotten a couple calls that because the corms are in the store and they're saying you can plant them now that they can go.

I was like, oh, well, let's go to town so you can plant new corms right now that you're getting in the store.

But for your established plants, you really want to wait till they're done flowering.

And then you can go to town, split them.

And you can, plant them in fall if you wanted to.

We have mild enough winters in the Pee Dee.

<Okay> So it makes it easy, but you can also wait till spring.

Amanda> I used to have some miniature ones or much shorter ones, and I just loved them.

They were so much easier to...

I like to make flower arrangements... you know, what are you going to do with something like that?

Yeah, but I mean, and I think of... and I hadn't seen any in a while, I think I'm going to look for some because I just adored them.

And I thought they were actually pretty.

Some people have to stake them or you know.

Carmen> Yeah, especially the old-timey ones.

The sword one... gladiolus.

Amanda> Yeah.

Carmen> Oh my goodness.

Very delicate, very lovely.

Kind of stays a normal size.

Amanda> Okay.

Carmen> I love it.

Amanda> Good old gladiolus, an easy.

And also, a lot of people, are wondering what they can do with tulips that bloom.

And, I know this is kind of changing the subject, but do you want to talk about why you just pull them up and throw them away?

Carmen> Yeah, sure.

So one of the big ones is we don't have the chill hours, to go into winter.

A lot of our tulips, if you really want them to thrive, you need to buy them pre-chilled, at least in, most of South Carolina.

And they're very, very hard to do it that way.

Additionally, a lot of the tulips, they will get a lot of the disease, from our soils.

So a lot of people will pull it up.

And if you wanted your tulips to last, you will actually pull the whole thing lock, stock, and barrel out of the ground.

That will give it a longer, vase life.

So you can actually take them, you can hold them like that and then cut the bulbs off later when you're ready to put them in a flower arrangement.

Amanda> Okay.

And also they're wimpy.

The, the foliage is because, you know, daffodils...

I mean, people, you know, they'll ask you, "can I tie them up with a rubber band," blah, blah, blah, because it just last so long.

But the tulip foliage, when it gets hot, it just goes, "oh," and so they can't replenish the bulb.

And they're not terribly expensive, and they can be lovely, but just don't worry about trying to bring them back.

Try something, try a different color or a different type.

Carmen> Yeah.

And there's so many.

<Yeah> You can always have something fun every year.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Thanks a lot.

Didn't mean to get off track.

But while we were talking about bulbs.

Carmen> No.

I love talking about bulbs.

Amanda> Well, they're just wonderful.

Yeah, especially the ones that come back every single year.

That's really good.

All righty, well, Terasa?

Terasa> We are going to help Lunette from Florence.

Who said, "I found this vine growing in a corner of my house.

Can you identify it?

And tell me what to expect as it continues to grow?"

And we do have a photo to go along with that.

Amanda> Alright.

Well, do you want to answer this one for us Tom?

Tom> I'll be glad to.

Amanda> Okay.

Tom> That is a trumpet vine.

<Ah> And it has a good side and a bad side.

<Yes> The good side is that it is a vigorous grower and provides beautiful blooms- Amanda> For a long time too.

Tom> For a very long time.

Amanda> Yeah.

Tom> The bad side is that it's a vigorous grower.

(laughter) And in this particular picture, you can see that it is growing up along side, a corner and using not only the bricks to grab with the aerial roots.

<Yes> But if you look at the very bottom of the picture, you can see how the vine is, has actually gone behind what looks like a structural support or vinyl.

And so it's not something that you really would prefer to have on your house.

Amanda> I think Lady Bird Johnson loved it because she liked to cover up junkyards.

And boy, it can cover up a chain link fence.

I mean, and just be beautiful, don't you think?

Tom> The thing to do, I think if you're interested in keeping it and growing it out, is to transplant it to someplace where it has a nice, strong support, like an arbor, so that it can grow out and really show off.

So that's what I would recommend otherwise, I would- Amanda> This is a really bad spot for that particular plant.

Tom> Very bad spot.

Amanda> Okay.

Well thank you so much.

Tom> Sure.

Amanda> Okay.

Doug Tallamy, "Bringing Nature Home" and now the "Home Grown National Park," many things that we homeowners can do to, help preserve the environment and all the animals, including us that live in it.

We had a grand time interviewing him.

I hope you'll listen and follow his advice.

I'm talking with Professor Doug Tallamy an Entomology professor at the University of Delaware.

And, Doug, you have pointed out to us the importance of gardening for nature and give us the statistic that really drives home why we've got to be so critically enthusiastic about doing this.

Doug> Well, unfortunately, there's a lot of statistics.

The one that people talk about is the loss of our birds.

We've lost three billion breeding birds in the last 50 years.

That's a third of our North American bird population already gone.

But we already have, we've got global insect decline.

The last figure I saw was, we've lost 75 percent of our insects.

The little things that run the world...not good.

So pretty much everything is in decline.

Amanda> And one of the things that when I've been following you for years and one of the first things you talked about was larval food sources, because even I think a hummingbird, everything... they just eat sugar water.

But how many...don't most birds have to feed their young sources of protein?

Doug> Absolutely.

96 percent of our terrestrial birds rear their young on insects.

And most of those insects are caterpillars.

And that includes hummingbirds.

They're, when they're breeding 80 percent of their diet is insects.

It's not, not sugar water.

You need protein to make a body.

That's right.

And...and it's not just any insect.

It is those caterpillars.

They're soft.

Amanda> Soft.

Doug> They're high in protein and fats.

They're high in carotenoids, which vertebrates can't make.

So it's a great source of carotenoids for the birds.

Well, they have very thin...exoskeletons.

Amanda> Who would want to have to stuff a roach down their babies mouth?

Doug> Or a beetle.

A beetle is...

I talk about caterpillars being like sausages.

Amanda> Yeah.

Doug> A beetle's like a tank and so much of a beetle is "un-digestible" and it's got sharp edges.

It rips up the baby's mouth.

So.

So caterpillars are enormously important.

And not just a few, thousands.

6,000 and 9,000 caterpillars to get one clutch of chickadees to the point where they leave the nest.

Amanda> Whoa!

Doug> And after they leave the nest, the parents continue to feed them caterpillars another 21 days.

So you're talking about tens of thousands of caterpillars.

Amanda> Just I mean, for one little nest of a small bird.

Yeah, a small bird.

And... And then the other thing is that because of co-evolution, most caterpillars can't have certain, only certain plants which their larva can digest.

Is that correct?

Doug> That is correct.

That's called host plant specialization.

And a perfect example is the monarch.

It only eats milkweeds.

But 90 percent of our caterpillars are host plant specialists, just like the monarchs.

And they have to specialize because the plants don't want to be eaten.

They want to capture the energy from the sun and use it for their own growth and reproduction.

So they protect their tissues with nasty chemicals.

<Yeah> They don't taste good.

Amanda> And then some, like the monarchs, learn to get around that.

Doug> That's where that co-evolution comes along.

They, they get specialized enzymes and behavioral adaptations and life history adaptations that allow them to get past those defenses on milkweeds.

But they didn't do that for any other plant.

So then they're locked into eating milkweeds.

And if you take milkweeds out of your yard and put hostas in... there go your monarchs.

Amanda> But fortunately, we have some plants that are easy to grow that also support a huge number of caterpillars.

And I guess the mighty oak.

Doug> The mighty oak is the best.

It's the best across the nation.

They support more than 950 species of caterpillars.

No other plant genus comes close to that.

So if you're going to plant a single tree, if you're going to do one thing to your yard, that's going to help biodiversity, plant an oak.

Amanda> And then also, you know, people do all this crazy volcano mulching and stuff like that.

But the caterpillars, the majority of them, I believe, fall to the ground and they need to go into the ground.

So you really should have a huge mulched area that allows them to and they're not coming down there to bother you as soon as they land, they want to go down into the soil.

Doug> They pupate and you get egg larva, pupa, and then adult, and then they go underground to pupate or they spin a cocoon in the leaf litter.

But we don't have leaf litter under our trees.

We have grass that goes right up to it.

So it's very difficult for those caterpillars to get down there.

So we've got to do two things.

We've got to make caterpillars, but we also have to shrink the lawn.

<Yes> Doug> We've got 44 million acres of lawn, which is an area the size of New England.

Amanda> I don't believe that lawns do anything for the caterpillars or the birds, if I'm not mistaken.

Doug> Lawns don't do anything for anything.

They're pretty.

There's four things every landscape has to do.

It has to support the watershed.

It has to support pollinators.

It has to support the food web, those caterpillars, and it has to sequester carbon, pull carbon out of the atmosphere.

Lawn does none of those things.

So having less lawn is going to help all aspects of our ecosystem.

And a good way to have a lush lawn is to put that bed under your oak tree because the beds, make it right out to the drip line.

That's what the caterpillars want.

That's what the tree wants, and you'll have less lawn.

And then around the edges of our property where if you just have lawn, any... pesticides or fertilizers might get down into the watershed.

We can use the edges of our lawn also to plant perhaps smaller trees and have some little some little patches of perennials, Doug> Sure.

Amanda> Herbaceous perennials- Doug> Sure.

The more plants you have on your property, the more pollutants are going to be intercepted before they get into the watershed.

But remember, we don't need any pesticides.

We use pesticides pretty much for no reason.

The only ones that, that really are necessary are to control termites and real termite people use baits now.

Amanda> And you have clever ways of trying to reduce your mosquito population.

You get a water bucket and put some straw or hay in it and then some mosquito dunks.

And so if you've got an easy place for female mosquitoes, the mosquito dunks are specific only to the mosquito larvae.

Doug> Only to aquatic diphtheria.

But the only aquatic diphtheria in your bucket is a mosquito larva.

And it's there because you've created this irresistible brew.

The female can't help but lay her eggs in there.

So you draw them from your property, they lay their eggs there, put in one mosquito dunk, Amanda> -and they last for a long time.

Doug> You're done.

Yeah.

Twelve dollars for a season's worth of control.

Amanda> How about that?

Then the other thing we can do is fire ants are such a problem down here and Clemson has wonderful resources on how to control those.

A lot of people still come down and put pesticide over their entire yards.

There's one thing that is, although it's not organic, it's a bait, and you just put like a pound for a whole acre.

And then they're also some organic alternatives- Doug> They will take it back to the colony.

Amanda> Yeah, I know.

It's really people are working hard to find ways to try to be a part of the solution, I believe.

Doug> You know, when we spread pesticides and herbicides all over our living spaces, we're living in that we've created an envelope of poison and know we don't die tomorrow.

But 30 years from now, we get cancer... Where did that come from?

Amanda> And tell me about what would happen if we did not have the decomposing insects?

Doug> 90 percent of the organic material out there dies and falls to the ground.

It's our decomposing insect decomposers that turn that over.

If we didn't have that, E.O.

Wilson says that the Earth would rot, all we would have is bacteria and fungi.

It would take forever.

It'd be this tangled mess of rotting vegetation, very slowly.

But the insects are turning it over very quickly.

So insects are essential for life on earth, life as we know it.

And without insects, humans would disappear, which is an important point.

So this war we have against insects is a war against ourself.

Amanda> Also, I think that we need sometimes to provide water sources.

Up where you're from, you probably have to put water that's not frozen in the winter.

But down here, birds do need water.

Doug> Yeah, having a moving water source.

So a friend calls it a bubbler, but even just a dripping hose because birds are attracted to clean water, the old birdbath that just sat there and get stagnant, they don't like that.

But if you have a little pump that circulates it, it signifies clean water.

And yeah, particularly for migrating birds, they fly up to 300 miles a night.

They've got to come down, and have a big drink.

Amanda> And when you talk about that we are nature's best hope.

You have now a movement that I believe you said 75 percent of the land in North America is- Doug> 78 percent of the lower 48 states is privately owned, 85 percent east of the Mississippi.

So if we don't practice conservation on private property, we're going to fail.

And failure is not an option.

So, unless we have something called Homegrown National Park, right?

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

Doug> We need to enlist everybody, millions of property owners who are going to practice good earth stewardship right at home.

That will turn this around.

It really will.

And there's enough people who have done it, including myself.

I see what happened at our property.

Nature's really resilient.

If you put the right plants there, it rebuilds itself and we can increase biodiversity very quickly.

Amanda> As we move towards smaller yards now.

Some people think, well, I can't do anything, but I believe you've talked about people who have teeny little properties and they plant natives and then they go out and start looking at the different caterpillars they have.

It's kind of astonishing.

Doug> Yeah, small properties work if you have no property, if you have a balcony on... a apartment complex.

Container plants with native plants, and you can now go to our website homegrownnationalpark.org and there's a whole list of the appropriate native plants that do well in containers and different eco-regions.

So there's no reason, that's a pile of bricks with no plant material there.

If everybody had plants on their balconies, it's all of a sudden an important resource for the migrating monarch, for the native bees... that are nearby.

We can do it everywhere, cities included.

Amanda> You'll laugh at me, but we live in a house that was built in 1880 and we don't have central heat or air.

And if we did not have oak trees and pecan trees in our yard, let me tell you, we could not survive in South Carolina.

Doug> Yeah, those big trees throw shade and they'll lower the temperature 15, 10 to 15 degrees in the summertime, and it protects you from winter winds.

Amanda> There's just for every single purpose.

This makes great sense.

And it's not going to be that difficult, is it?

Doug> No, it's not.

It's...fun.

You can...you can see the results and it's not that difficult.

And, you know, if you don't garden and a lot of people don't, we're trying to build an industry of ecological landscapers that you can hire and they'll come do it for you.

But not doing it in the future is not an option.

We can't live without nature because that creates the life support that we depend on.

We call them ecosystem services and we need them everywhere, not just in parks and preserves.

So this is kind of a must do movement that will involve gardeners.

But even if you don't garden, the people you hire can do it.

Amanda> I want to thank you so much for sharing this information with our audience and for helping us all to understand that we as an individual can make a difference.

Doug> You are nature's best hope.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Amanda> Doug Tallamy has lots of presentations that you can watch on those channels that you can find on the internet.

Do take it to heart, what he said, please.

Well, hats, hats, hats.

This was a funner, because some of my native azaleas are in bloom.

So our native azaleas are so much fun because they're deciduous, unlike the wonderful ones that come from... from Japan and China.

And, and they smell heavenly.

Now, they are not things that people have around their foundation because they have more of a, upright tree like growth, small tree.

And then there are lots of different ones, but I think this one's fun.

And, they come, they have an extended bloom period.

So if you want some, I just, you'll just love it.

They just smell... Don't they smell like Heaven?

Tom> They smell glorious.

And then I got a little bit of an anise, there's a red anise that's out in my yard.

And I got some of those little flowers.

And then I had you look up the, the bulbs for me.

And I have a lot of those because they multiply easily.

Stephanie> Oh, it was a pretty, Spanish bluebells.

Amanda> Aren't they pretty?

Stephanie> Beautiful spring bulb.

Yes.

Amanda> Gosh, what a glorious time of year.

Yeah.

All righty.

Well, do you think we can help some other people, Terasa?

Terasa> Let's give it a try.

<Okay> We're going to try to help Diane in Greenwood.

Who said, "How can I tell if my Holly is male or female?

I haven't seen any berries, so does that mean it's definitely a male?"

Amanda> Well, not necessarily.

Because I think things need pollination sometimes.

Help us out here.

Stephanie> Right.

So Holly's, you know, Diane's on track.

She knows that there's male and female plants with Hollies.

And so, the female plants obviously will be the ones having the berries and producing the fruit.

And the male plants will only have pollen in their flowers.

And so, in the early spring, Hollies will bloom.

They're very tiny flowers.

They're very nondescript.

Right?

So you don't really notice all the time.

But if you can catch and actually see the bloom, we can look at it and see if it has male or female flower parts.

And that's really the best way to tell if you have a female or male.

And obviously, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean if she's not had any fruit, that it's, that it's not a female because maybe there is not a male producing pollen nearby.

To then, you know, fertilize those female flowers.

So, can't really just go by the absence of fruit on that.

We'll have to get closer and take a look at the flowers.

Amanda> And I think now sometimes when you're reading in catalogs, they'll say, you know, these have these beautiful berries and then you need somebody who's a stallion or something to pollinate.

You need to plant one or two of those nearby?

Stephanie> Right.

So they'll say must buy or purchase a pollinator or they'll offer it with it, you know, as a, as a twofer or whatever.

But yeah, you know, our native Hollies, there's bound to be, you know, a male plant nearby.

But, you know, once you get into specific varieties, you got a, you got to look for a male plant.

Amanda> I think our Ilex opaca, the tree is just one of the loveliest things.

And the bark on them stunningly beautiful as well.

People should use that more.

And it doesn't get so large that you can't really find a place for it in your landscape.

Stephanie> Yeah, there are plenty of native Hollies that look great in landscape, ...for sure.

Terasa> Even though those flowers are so tiny and nondescript, they're very attractive to certain pollinators.

So sometimes you might not notice the plants flowering, but if you walk by, you can hear the buzz of of the pollinators that are visiting.

Amanda> Well, thank you for telling me that.

Yeah.

Okay.

All righty.

Well, anybody else in line?

Terasa> Oh, yes.

Always.

Lorraine in Shiloh said, "I was told to purchase a can of lye and bury it under my 'pe-con' or pecan trees and get them to grow better."

I always have to say it both ways.

"Do you have any details on how to do this?"

Oh, I'm not so sure if this isn't an old wives' tale, but I bet somebody on our panel can tell us.

Amanda> That's the strangest thing I've ever heard of.

Terasa> It's not something I've heard before.

Carmen> I actually get it a lot.

Amanda> No.

Come on.

Carmen> Yeah.

Everybody calls up and asks like, "Where is-" And they would say, like, "Where is the can of Red Devil Lye?"

Amanda> Well, first of all, who wants to do with that stuff?

But go ahead.

Carmen> Well no, exactly.

Well, that's an important point because it's a super caustic alkaline compound.

<Yeah> I think, I know that a lot of people used to think that it would be a really great source for zinc, which is important to pecans, "pe-cons," and one of the- Amanda> "Pecans" here.

(laughter) Carmen> But one of the big things was the actual technique everybody would tell me about was you got to bury the entire can.

Well, one I can't find, I couldn't even find a can of anything anymore.

It's all in plastic.

And I'm wondering if they buried the whole can.

That's probably why it didn't kill the whole tree.

Because, it a lye, straight lye sprinkled around like you would a fertilizer, could actually kill the roots.

And so instead, let's stay away from that.

(laughter) It's dangerous on multiple fronts, but zinc is important.

And so a lot of the zinc sulfates, they come in a nice granular that you can apply.

I would highly encourage you to get a soil test first.

Amanda> And you could ask, you know, you can say for a pecan tree and they will tell you just what that pecan tree needs.

<Yep> For your particular site, I think.

Carmen> Yep, we can dial in exactly how many pounds per, you know, breast height of the tree, whatever you want.

We can, happy to do that.

But, the... Yeah, the lye...

I chuck it under that "notions and potions" category that everyone's so fond of, so.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah.

Well, and so people still call you up and ask you.

Carmen> Oh, yeah, I get, I get at least three calls every, every year around this time.

Amanda> Well, and Florence has a pecan trail that you're supposed to follow over there.

We went over there and had lunch and we had a wonderful pecan pie, a deep dish pecan pie.

Oh, it was wonderful.

And they gave us this thing that said the Pecan Trail.

And it was different places you could go where they had pecans and maybe pecan candies and things.

It just sounded like a lot of fun because you can't go wrong eating pecans.

Carmen> No you can't.

But a lot of people there, they end up with their families, you know, forty acres of pecans and you don't know what to do with them, so.

You go off of what you heard, Amanda> Well, and also, Terasa, I think it's, you know, it's kind of hit or miss if you're going to get a good crop of pecans because so many things can affect what happens I believe annually.

Terasa> There's some pests that come along and, bumper crop years.

<Drought> Yeah irrigation, I think, if people, people don't realize the importance of irrigation.

Amanda> And old trees, you know, it's just like, you know, old people aren't having babies so much, you know, there's a reason for it.

(laughter) Carmen> It's more for a nice shade.

Yeah.

(laughter) Don't expect any more pecans off of them.

Amanda> Okay.

Pecan pie, I declare it's hard to beat isn't it?

Terasa> My mouth is watering.

That's probably one of my favorites.

Amanda> Alright Tom, what you got- Terasa> They're good in ice cream.

Amanda> Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you.

(laughter) What you got for us?

Tom> Well Amanda, you know, many of my plants come with a story, and this one's no different.

(laughter) I have two, large pots <Yes> on either side of a sidewalk that leads up to my front door.

And I was looking for something new and different- Amanda> Yeah.

And attractive.

Tom> Somewhat exciting, for those two pots.

On a recent visit to my home state of Florida, I was inspired and found my answer.

Amanda> Come on.

Whoa!

Tom> This- Amanda> Oh, it's so pretty.

Tom> Is an Ixora.

And that is- Amanda> How do you spell it?

Tom> Spelled I-X-O-R-A Ixora.

Amanda> I-X-O-R-A.

Okay.

Tom> Right.

And, the thing that I like about this is it is low maintenance, but high impact.

These beautiful leathery leaves start out with this lovely lime color.

<Yes> And then you can see some of the...

I can't see them from here, but the smaller little signs... Amanda> Yeah.

Tom> Of the inflorescence and those will last anywhere from six to eight weeks.

So, I'm one who tends to fuss over my potted plants.

This one I can plant and just leave alone.

<Mercy> So, I'm going to grow it as an annual.

It is not a native.

Amanda> Uh-huh.

So you're not sure it's cold hardy up here?

Tom> It is...

It is definitely not.

<Okay> It does not like temperatures, below 50 degrees.

So I'll just grow it as a, as an annual.

Amanda> You think you'll be able to find it or are you going to go down to Florida and visit your sister again?

Tom> I will probably go back and get some more from her.

Amanda> That's a wonderful reason to make a trip.

Tom> Yeah, it is.

Amanda> It really is.

And so you just spotted it and said "this is wow."

Tom> Well, I was looking for something new and different.

And something that you don't see much of here.

<Yeah> And so I saw this and instantly knew I had found exactly what I wanted- Amanda> So you're going to put a little sign and say, if you want to know what this is, this is it.

Maybe you should because- Tom> Might use iNaturalist.

(laughter) Amanda> Isn't it just grand?

Tom> And I do have people walking in my neighborhood who look at some of the things that I have in the yard, so I suspect I'll get questions.

Amanda> It looks like it's going to get kind of big over the summer.

I think it's going to fill out a good bit.

What do you think?

Tom> It can grow as a hedge?

Amanda> Where it's hardy.

Tom> Where it's been naturalized in Florida.

In fact, growing up there, we had one of these hedges in the front of the house.

Amanda> Come on.

Tom> So I was very familiar with them.

But I've never grown them myself.

Amanda> Does it come in different colors?

Tom> Yes.

It does.

<No, gah> It comes in, bright reds, whites, yellows, pinks, oranges.

So you can get all sorts of them.

Amanda> And no pest particularly.

Tom> They really are pretty low maintenance with, with regard to pest and care.

Amanda> Okay.

Well do water it a little.

Tom> Yes, ma'am.

Amanda> Thank you.

(laughter) Okay.

Well, thanks.

Whoo.

I-X-O, Ixora.

Gosh it's pretty.

Okay.

Well Terasa?

Terasa> You know growing plants is not always easy.

It seems like Jim in Ware Shoals, is having a little bit of trouble.

He said, "I'd like to grow lettuce and I never have any luck.

What could be the issue?"

Amanda> My goodness.

Well, there are lots of different lettuces too.

Stephanie, if have you got some advice for somebody who wants to have a wonderful salad?

Stephanie> Yeah.

So, to troubleshoot lettuce growing.

First of all, the different lettuces is key.

We don't do well here with iceberg in South Carolina.

Amanda> That's so boring anyway.

Stephanie> Anyway.

Yeah, who wants to eat it anyway.

Right?

So stay away from iceberg.

Choose a romaine type or a loose leaf type.

<Okay> That's the first thing.

Second of all, lettuce likes cooler weather, but not frost, right?

So... And we don't, we have a up and down roller coaster spring and fall a lot of times all over the state.

So, you want to start it late in the spring and then protect it from hard frosts.

And you want to also, if you want to try to extend your lettuce harvest.

<Yes> I think, you can also, it doesn't take as much sun as a lot of your other vegetables, so you can put it in the shade of something else.

So like behind your tomato.

So it gets a little bit of afternoon shade.

Amanda> Okay.

Might be happier.

Stephanie> Yeah.

And then it can extend your lettuce harvest in the small garden setting, you know, more into the summer, before the heat kind of gets it.

Yeah.

Amanda> I like a arugula.

Stephanie> Arugula is really good.

Amanda> And I think it... isn't, particular.

Is it?

Stephanie> Yeah.

It's, it, it'll bolt as well, but it's a little bit more heat tolerant.

Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

Carmen> When the arugula bolts, you can eat the flowers too.

Stephanie> There you go.

Carmen> Those are delicious.

Amanda> Well thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

Carmen> Nice... lightly sweet, but kind of spicy.

Amanda> And pretty too.

Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie> And continually sow your lettuce.

Like, don't just sow it and stop.

Right?

Amanda> But, you're not going to have it all summer long.

Stephanie> No, you're not going to have it all summer.

You just stretch it a little bit with some shade and- Amanda> Well, and now, you know, there are so many available.

Stephanie> Oh yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

Although, an iceberg salad with... iceberg lettuce with blue cheese dressing is a staple and kind of a classic.

Carmen> The wedge.

(laughter) Amanda> It's good.

Okay.

Alright Terasa.

Terasa> Next, we have a question from Beau in Tatum who said, "The boxwoods in my yard are all experiencing boxwood decline.

What can I replace in all those spots that would have that same bushy, leafy appearance?"

Amanda> Okay.

Boxwood are having numerous problems now, aren't they?

Talk about that a little bit.

Carmen> Boxwood, boxwood blight, terrible fungal pathogen.

That has, started really taking out a lot of boxwood, especially in a hedge formation.

And a lot of the times people will, set the boxwoods forget it.

And they get too bushy, too much humidity.

Too much bad can, well good conditions for fungus.

But, so you start to see them actually die out in certain spots.

Amanda> And a hedge, I mean, what could be worse than a blank hole?

Carmen> I know.

It's just like, "uh gross."

So one of the big ones is, looking to some of the natives that can kind of fill that niche.

Amanda> Okay.

Carmen> A lot of people will go into the yaupon hollies.

There are a couple of really great, the Bordeaux cultivar and, Nana, those are all a nice dwarf type- Amanda> The Bordeaux has kind of a, wine color aspect to it.

Carmen> It's got, no, but it has a nice dwarf size, so you can keep it low like you would a boxwood.

Amanda> Okay.

Nothing to do with wine... too bad.

(laughter) Carmen> No, you really enjoy... That's when I think of a hedge or a manicured garden is in the French wine region and some of those chateaus.

Amanda> And I think, you know, I think they have kind of a billowing shape and, I mean, I've, I've seen some that haven't been, you know, nobody's gone in and pruned and I just think the shape of them can be quite beautiful.

Carmen> Their natural form is absolutely gorgeous.

Amanda> Don't you think so?

Carmen> And I really, I hate to see when someone just puts it in their little... puts it in their little square, but, you know, to each their own.

I would just say another one that has beautiful natural form is the, Mrs. Schiller's Delight Viburnum.

That's a lovely one.

<Okay> And that has a lovely little white flower.

Very pretty.

And then, of course, there's the inkberry.

That... the inkberry holly, any of the Ilex glabra.

<Yes> That one's a fun one too.

Amanda> And it used to be they were real rangy and you really couldn't do anything.

But they've done a lot of breeding work on them.

And I still think you get the positive attributes of it.

Carmen> You can still enjoy looking for a boxwood look, while still getting a lot of really great, diversity in your plantings, because we need to diversify out a lot of those hedges.

<Okay> Terasa> There are two specific cultivars if I might throw in.

Amanda> Thank you.

Terasa> Strongbox and Gem Box are two of the smaller cultivars of the inkberry holly.

I don't know if it's why they were named that way.

I don't know if the boxes interpreted as being a replacement for...

But anyway, it's the way I kind of remember it in my head.

Boxwood replacement.

Amanda> Good, good, good.

And, I don't think, I think that now people are interested and I think you can find them relatively easy, easily in the trade.

Carmen> Especially because boxwoods not, not the way to go really, right now.

Amanda> Oh goodness, goodness, goodness, alright.

Well, we have so much fun at the South Carolina Botanical Garden.

The only thing is, I wish it were closer, but we had a wonderful trip up there and, to see their new bird garden.

(classical orchestral music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> I'm talking to Allison Kelly, who's the Assistant Director of Horticulture at the South Carolina Botanical Garden up in Clemson.

And we are at your newest garden.

I believe this is the Birding Garden.

Allison> Yes, the Birding Garden was developed in collaboration with the South Carolina Botanical Garden and the Architecture Department here at Clemson University.

Dan Harding worked with our landscape architect at the time, Shannon Barrett, and his students developed this incredible structure, and it's to help our community members come in and just stop, look and listen to the birds.

They were already here every morning and they were just looking up at the birds, and we thought, this will be a great place.

Amanda> And I believe that these young architectural students who are like young kids everywhere, are very ecologically and sustainability driven, and that fits in with y'all's goal too, I believe.

Allison> That's right.

Our mission and our vision.

We need biodiversity.

We need to work with recycled materials and also realize that we need to have a diverse population of plants to bring a diverse population of birds, animals, and so forth.

Amanda> And you have a diverse population of birders that have really enjoyed coming here.

<Yes.> And for recycling, I just think this is the coolest thing.

Y'all have this giant parking lot down here and you didn't need every square inch of asphalt.

So tell us some of the cool things you've done.

Allison> Yes, the students decided to repurpose this parking area, take material we didn't need, and instead, use it as a wall and then insert different sedums, various plantings of sedums.

Amanda> You said already this was a great place for birds and you'd noticed birders were here.

This is kind of, there's water near here.

What do birds need for their needs?

What are the needs they have to be met?

Allison> Sure, Sure.

They need water, of course.

And we have the nearby creek, but also a water fountain, yes, if you will, in here.

But they also need food.

So we have berries and seeds, plants that, that allow those, provide those services.

And then they need, they need nesting materials.

So we have lots of grasses and things of that nature that they can use for nesting materials.

And then, of course, then we have the evergreen trees along the back and that provides the shelter during those cold months.

Amanda> And I was speaking with one of the birders and he was directing me to the hackberry tree, which was already here.

He said that because hackberries have so many insects on them that the warblers are just divinely happy right now, eating little aphids off the trees and just the dearest.

He said it's just been the most exciting for them to see as they're in their migration.

Allison> Yes.

Between hackberries and oaks, they provide a tremendous amount of diversity for insects.

So, and birds, really, they, we need to plant gardens, not just for the birds, but for those insects, because it's just a whole cycle.

Amanda> It certainly is.

Yes.

Allison> So, yes, the hackberry is tremendous and we have tremendous oaks all around as well.

So those provide a lot of food for the insects and the birds.

Amanda> And then they showed me, and I looked, this Salvia leucantha in which, because you have a lot of things you've planted for beauty for the people who come, and this is just an insect magnet, but also the hummingbirds were just, I've never seen anything like it this morning.

<I know it.> They've just been getting a double dose of breakfast.

Allison> Yes, we have, we have a couple of varieties of salvia, but the grasses provide the seed heads as we get into the winter months, they're going to need that seed.

Amanda> You've got beautiful grasses, so let's talk about some of them.

They're just exquisite for me to look at.

I mean, I just love the beauty of them there.

Allison> Yes, we have our native, well, they're all native grasses, okay?

But our state grass, the Indiangrass is a tremendous source of seeds for our birds.

But we also have a couple of species of Muhley grass, some that are native here to the Southeast and some that are native more to Texas, the Southwest area.

Amanda> And it just gives such a wonderful diversity of texture and heights in this garden, even though it's a teeny little garden compared to the 200 acres you have all around you.

It's just, and then also, we don't think of green and white as being colors, but this time of year we see there is a lot of color in the grasses.

Allison> Oh, yes, yes!

With the mid ribs of the white of this Tripsacum grass here and, and also the various seed color heads, and then this defined cloud appearance of the muhley grass seed heads.

It's just spectacular in the sun of the morning and in the evening sun as it drifts through the seed heads.

It's just spectacular.

Amanda> And you have some passion vine, which is half eaten up now, which is just what you want.

Allison> Exactly.

The passion vine's great for the Gulf fritillary caterpillars.

Yes, they've eaten that thing up, but now they've transformed into these beautiful butterflies.

Amanda> That we're seeing all around.

Allison> Exactly.

Exactly.

Amanda> And then Silphium, cup plant, is just so much fun.

Tell people about how miraculous nature is and having those leaves.

Allison> Yes.

Yes.

Amanda> And what those leaves can hold in them.

Allison> The leaves actually fuse around the stem and then hence it's common name, cup plant, holds the water.

So not only does it provide the seed heads at the top, but then it holds some of the water source for some of those other little birds.

Amanda> And we were looking at them, and they're just the seed hulls are in it because the flower, when it's a member of the, it's a DYA <Aster, yes> Except this was pretty easy to identify and so it's got just thousands or hundreds of little seeds in each flower head, I believe.

Allison> Yes.

That's exactly right.

The aster family is, is known for its many, many types of seeds, but also those disc and ray flowers.

Most people just associate that with the daisy look and we have several of those, the cup plant and also the Coreopsis <Yes> that we have over here.

But we also have the Scabiosa.

Amanda> Whoa, okay!

Allison> The butterfly, the pincushion flower.

So we have a lot of those.

Amanda> And then also for beauty, we have beautyberry.

I haven't seen a lot of birds eat beautyberry, but again, we have, you know, people are animals too.

And so you're planning to attract the birds, but you have certain things that are just to bring joy to our hearts.

And the beautyberry, which is, of course, native, is such a gorgeous plant.

Allison> It is.

It is.

And too, it provides some cover as well.

But it's when we get down into those dire months of January and February and they say, okay- Amanda> I'm going to eat my rutabagas.

(laughs) Allison> (laughs) That's exactly right.

Amanda> I think that's kind of how...

But that's good because it holds its fruits for a long time.

Allison> A long time.

Amanda> And they are there when the birds need something else to eat.

Allison> That's right.

That's right.

Amanda> Allison, there's an interesting use of materials that they brought in.

So let's talk about the rails and the bird house.

Allison> Yes.

Well, first of all, the ramp here is designed, is ADA compliant, so that we can have any visitor come, drive up here in this parking lot, can roll or walk or crawl if they want, up to the, up to our bird house.

And there are also some binoculars that are up there so they can just check out the birds from any vantage point here, the wall or up there.

But yes, the repurposed materials and the materials used are designed to kind of mimic nature, the bird feathers around the shed, the bird house, if you will, and also the railings, it kind of blends in.

It's not going to stand out like stainless steel.

Amanda> It's that wonderful Corten steel that just kind of rusts and takes on its own life.

And then, and then the bird house with its wonderful feathers that are brown and have that.

And they're not all the same color because things age at different times.

And then the green that you've used, it just mimics the garden.

It's just remarkable!

Allison> Yes.

All these different layers provide a lot of different structure, not just for the eye, but also for the birds.

Amanda> The South Carolina Botanical Garden is 200 acres of just magic.

It's already a bird sanctuary.

But this has just been so fun because it's a place where people can come and really watch, you know, specific birds, and it's a place for them to make friends and see their friends who have similar interests, which is a whole part of what you're all doing here.

You're trying to connect community and the environment and bring awareness of the natural world.

And I think it's open and very accessible here because I don't think y'all are closed down very much.

Allison> That's right.

We're open 365 days a year and from sunrise to sunset.

And, and, you know, what's really magical is that it's free.

That's the most important part.

Amanda> It really is just a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful place.

And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to share this newest garden with us.

Allison> Thank you.

Thank you for sharing with everyone.

♪ Amanda> Anytime that you go to the South Carolina Botanical Garden and there's lots of parking, which is wonderful, wonderful.

You'll see things that will just make you so happy that you stopped and made that trip.

And we sure did enjoy the bird garden.

Well, Tom, you are a great proponent of show and tell.

So, what you going to show and tell about now.

Tom> Well, again, another plant, another story.

This is a Natal Plum.

And it is a native of Southeast Africa, in a region by the name of Natal.

Amanda> My goodness.

Tom> I actually saw a larger version.

This is a dwarf.

And the pictures that you see on the screen show not only the flower, which is a star-shaped, but also, a nice red fruit that's edible for jellies and jams, but also these horrible Y-shaped thorns.

Amanda> Oh, oh.

Tom> That make it a great hedge.

I decided that I would minimize the thorns, the size, and buy a dwarf.

This one happens to be called Emerald Blanket.

And I will grow it in a pot.

Just because I think it's interesting, and I would love to see if I can get some of those smaller fruits.

Amanda> Whoa.

Well, is this one going to have vicious thorns?

Tom> It's got thorns on it if you look closely, but they are not large.

Amanda> Okay.

Alright.

Well, how about that?

Always fun to have your show and tell.

I don't know where you shop, but you have a good time doing it.

Okay.

Thank you all for being here.

And thank you at home for watching.

And we hope we'll see you next week.

Night-night.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.