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♪ [upbeat music] ♪ <Amanda McNulty> Good evening and welcome to Making It Grow we're so glad you can join us this Tuesday night.

We're going to have a special topic that actually relates a lot to flowers and growing crops and health of forest and that topic is bats.

They're around us all the time, but most of us don't see them.

First, let's start off with something that we do enjoy seeing up front and live in person and that is Terasa Lott with her Gardens of the Week.

Terasa.

<Terasa Lott> Thanks, Amanda.

It's time for us to take our virtual field trip and look at what others are doing across the state with their yards, gardens or even indoor plants especially at this time of the year.

We're going to begin in North Charleston where Cathy Tulluck shared a single Camellia which she brought inside to enjoy.

Nancy Launi shared a Gerbera Daisy from her yard in Myrtle Beach that's blooming already.

In Lake View, Mary Spivey is growing some succulents indoors and we'll finish out with Jane Kokel's Camellias in Murrells Inlet.

Thanks so much for sharing your photos.

If you would like to have your photos included, always look for our posts on the Facebook page and just post your photos in the comments there.

Amanda back to you.

<Amanda> Terasa, it's hard to believe with this weather and all we have, we still have Camellias almost every month of the winter time.

Aren't they something?

<Terasa> They are absolutely gorgeous.

I can see why people like them so much.

<Amanda> I do too.

We're going to start off talking with Jennifer Kindel and she is a member of the team at the Department of Natural Resources.

She started her career studying a flying animal, birds, and now she shifted over to bats and she said that it's stunning how fascinating they are and that she's really glad that she's ended up doing research on such a remarkably diverse and curious animal.

(silence) <Amanda> I'm speaking with Jennifer Kindel.

Jennifer is a wildlife biologist with South Carolina Department of Natural Resources and her specialty is something that's really very timely right now and that is bats.

Jennifer, thank you for taking the time to speak to us.

Let's start off with the elephant in the living room, so to speak, which is we're in the midst of a pandemic and there are connections that are supposedly related back to bats and perhaps markets and things like wildlife markets.

Could you address that a little bit and tell us if bats really were the originating factor and what we do know about it?

<Jennifer Kindel> Yes.

Thank you, Amanda for having me on.

And it's a great opportunity to be able to talk about bats because right they are often maligned as an animal that is fearful for people.

So, with COVID there has been some research we're looking at where the viruses come from and 96 percent of the genome in a horseshoe bat is similar to the SARS-CoV-2 virus but knowing if you know about genomes then 96 percent is still quite a ways away from a 100 percent.

So there is no smoking gun showing that bats carry COVID or the virus at all There's obviously an end from there.

There's no connection between the virus being spread from bats to humans and especially not directly.

<Amanda> We do know Jennifer I believe that there are hundreds and thousands probably of coronaviruses that we're not even aware of and there's one of the things that occasionally can cause a jump between an animal and a human is as wildlife shrinks as their areas of where they can run free and be isolated, as we have this intersect so much more, there are more opportunities for that.

And I think that's something we have to kind of keep in mind too, but we just didn't run into wildlife like we do now these days.

<Jennifer> Right.

You really hit the nail on the head for that because the encroachment that's occurring nowadays didn't happen in the past and so a lot of disease spread has to do with our interactions with species that we haven't had in the past especially when you're encroaching on their environment and these animals are already stressed out for various reasons and so we bring all that into one place and that's when diseases - <Amanda> Bats are pretty fascinating.

A lot of people are afraid of bats but in many parts of the world, some parts of the world bats are eaten and people are afraid of them.

But let's just talk a little bit about bats in general.

Are there a lot of different kind of bats in the world?

<Jennifer> Yes there are.

There's over 14 hundred species of bats in the world and they're still discovering more and so for example, in South Carolina we have 14 different species.

And there are different types of bats too.

So, worldwide you've got your fruit eaters and some of those bigger bats that are called flying foxes, which are really impressive they can be like six foot wing span.

<Amanda> That big?

<Jennifer> Yeah.

They're actually quite cute.

They've got big eyes and little tiny ears where our species have little eyes and big ears and are insect eaters here and are much, much smaller.

So like six you know six inch wingspan is one of the smaller species but there is a huge diversity when it comes to bat species.

<Amanda> So the fruit eater has an important purpose in the world.

As they eat fruit and the seeds go into their body, as they fly, they disperse.

They're seeds dispersers.

So that's very important because we need - that means that plant can have another opportunity to grow somewhere else.

<Jennifer> That's correct yes.

<Amanda> How do some of the others make their living so to speak?

Do some of them pollinate plants?

<Jennifer> That's right!

Yes.

So some species pollinate plants such as agave which as you know is responsible for tequila.

We are very grateful for the bats for that.

They do also pollinate things like bananas and other things, other plants.

They propagate and seed disperse for things that we use such as black pepper, figs and chocolate.

And then did you also protect quite a few crops that we all rely on such as cotton and corn and rice some of staple crops as well as citrus plant species and coffee beans that kind of thing.

We really do realign them worldwide even if they aren't species in our state.

<Amanda> There's one bat that gets a really bad rap and that's the vampire bat, Tell me, do they come and stick their teeth in your jugular vein and drink you dry or what's it like?

<Jennifer> They do not.

As fantastic as that is, they do not.

And that's true.

That's what we see a lot of times.

So they are of the 14 hundred species, there are three or four that are vampire bats and none of those are in South Carolina.

But they drink the blood of chickens and cows usually and they'll make a little cut on the leg usually while the animal is sleeping and they'll drink the blood.

And the interesting thing about that is they have an anti-coagulant in their saliva that keeps the blood flowing and then they'll drink only so much until they're full.

They're these little guys so they're not going to drink a ton.

They'll waddle off until they can digest it.

Another thing about that too is researchers are looking at that anticoagulant in their saliva to use for medicine or stroke victims and like that.

So even from vampire bats, we can benefit.

<Amanda> And you know you and I were talking about how they slit and that's how a horsefly.

A horsefly doesn't bite.

They slit your skin and that's what happens when you're wet.

So, we shouldn't... them out... mosquitos... We have a lot of things that use our blood.

We shouldn't think of the vampire bat as being something that should be exterminated because it's not a danger or a great threat.

It's not going to kill the animal on which it feeds.

<Jennifer> That's right.

<Amanda> We don't have to worry about that in South Carolina because I believe that most of our bats, of course, bats are the only mammal that fly, I believe.

Like squirrels, don't they just kind of float around.

<Jennifer> They do.

They glide.

<Amanda> But tell me about bats.

Are they powerful fliers?

<Jennifer> Yes.

So the Brazilian free-tailed bat is the fastest flying bats in the world.

We have a sub species of it here in South Carolina.

So, they can fly 100 miles an hour in a straight line, flapping flight speed.

And as a sort of a secret bird not, as well, it's always kind of fun to see the competition between birds and bats because they're both super fascinating, but you've got the peregrine falcon that flies like 200 miles, dive, which is super impressive.

But for flapping flight, the Brazilian free tailed bat is the fastest flying animal <Amanda> So from going from A - Z horizontally the bat is incredibly, incredibly fast.

<Jennifer> Yes, that's right!

<Amanda> Jennifer you mentioned that bats are remarkably important in eating agricultural pests and that they save us millions of billions of dollars a year, I believe.

<Jennifer> That's correct.

Yes.

They save South Carolina 115 million dollars per year for the Ag industry in terms of a pest suppression service and reduce pesticides.

And they do also eat quite a few mosquitoes but that is the big thing that you can boil down to a dollar sign is that amount of money.

So, that's about 23 billion dollars a year across the US for the Ag industry.

They really benefit us without us knowing about it.

<Amanda> And of course going along with that means that you said that there's such skillful flowers that they could actually come in and take insects off plant leaves and things like that.

They don't always have to catch something in the air.

So that means that when the farmers scout their fields and say "We don't have to spray unless "we have this many insects per linear feet of plant."

They don't have to put a pesticide out either.

That's a great savings, as well.

Isn't it?

<Jennifer> Yeah.

That's right.

That's right because as we know at some level pesticides can create a cascading effect and so not only is it a dollar that we're saving but it's helping protect other species that might be affected by that pesticide inadvertently.

<Amanda> As somebody who has to spray with DEET to go out and work in her yard.

In our neighborhood, there are a lot of vacant lots and things and so there's a lot of water.

Mosquito apparently, mosquitoes are the favorite food of one particular bat.

<Jennifer> That's right.

The little brown bat loves mosquitoes and it actually consumes nine different species that are known to carry west Nile virus.

So they help us quite a bit.

<Amanda> And they could eat several thousand a night?

<Jennifer> Yes.

So they can eat 150 individual mosquitoes in ten minutes.

So, if you're imagining these little, little bats flying around and you have hundreds flying around that's that's quite a bit of mosquitoes being consumed.

<Amanda> Well, first of all go back and let's talk about how these bats find the insects.

They have a system of like radar or something?

Can you explain that to me, please?

<Jennifer> Yes, so, echo location is something that they have that involves emitting a high frequency pulse that will bounce off anything that they're looking at basically.

They'll emit that pulse and it'll bounce off an insect or trees or something in the environment come back to the bats and the ears.

That's why they have large ears to collect that bounce back in a process in their brain about what they're basically seeing.

So they do that for insects, to catch insects and in fact they have a different kinds of pulses depending on what they're doing.

They have increased time post to find something and as soon as they find it it'll increase the frequency and timing of it until they catch the insect they're trying to find.

<Amanda> They zero in on it.

<Jennifer> Yeah, they do.

Exactly.

We call that the feeding buzz, because they just go <buzz> right to the end until they catch the insect.

So they can catch them in their mouth or they can catch them in what is called the uropatagium, which is the little piece of wing membrane that comes down near their tail.

They'll get up close to it.

If they miss it, they'll catch it in their tail and pop it in their mouth.

When you see bats flying around really erratically it's not because they can't fly well, it's because they can fly exceptionally well and eat on the wing.

<Amanda> Let's talk a little bit about their wing.

They have a hand.

They have fingers I think five fingers like us.

Explain where they are in the wing and how that all works together, please.

<Jennifer> Yes.

So, chiroptera refers to the hand wing.

You're exactly right.

They've basically got really long fingers with the wing membrane around it and the thumb is the little hook where they hold on to things and they're hanging.

Sorry, when they're climbing and then they're hanging upside down and they hold by the bottom of their feet.

They climb and then the rest of the wing, they have in their fingers.

And so that's why they can be so maneuverable when they fly.

They've got all the different ways to move their wings versus feathers a little bit more stiff.

So, they can really get in and around, under and through leaves and things like that.

<Amanda> I hadn't thought about that but feathers would be stiffer.

So, with just this very thin skin stretched over the wing, they're just remarkably deft in changing directions and darting after things.

<Jennifer> Exactly right.

<Amanda> They really are something.

<Jennifer> They are fascinating <Amanda> But not all bats have that.

That's specific to certain species, I believe.

Is that correct?

<Jennifer> Yes, so some species are more maneuverable than others.

So, we've got our tree species that are as it sounds.

They spend more time in the trees.

They have longer wings and can fly faster like our Brazilian free tailed bats.

Some of the tree species like the eastern red bat, which we'll talk about later hang in the leaves and actually in Spanish moss as well individually.

So they don't come together in groups, even during the maternity season.

They are more of a solitary roosting species.

<Amanda> Jennifer, our little group of 14 or so bats here are more alike than they're not fruit eaters.

They're all going to eat insects but they're pretty big differences between them too because some of them have different ways of hibernating or nesting and having babies.

So, can we talk a little bit about how that varies between some of the different species, please?

<Jennifer> Yes, yes so we have the tree species that roosts singlely and that tend to migrate further and have longer wings and then we have the hibernating species that hibernate for periods of time in the winter.

They tend to be smaller and have smaller wings and shorter wings but actually have a higher wing load.

So they can move quite a bit more.

<Amanda> All of us, we're a SCETV and Clemson production, we all know about Clemson Blue Cheese which had its beginnings in Stumphouse Tunnel.

Of course that's been used by bats.

They're doing work there on a new problem that bats are suffering from called - Is it white nose syndrome?

Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it came to the United States?

Why it's so dangerous for some of these bats?

<Jennifer> Yes.

So white nose syndrome is a disease caused by a fungus and what this fungus does is it will grow on the skin of a bat.

It's noticed most on the nose and the forearms.

What happens is the bats are hibernating and trying to slowly use all their energy reserves but the fungus infects their skin and then the skin and wakes - that infection wakes them up.

And so, they end up burning their energy reserves.

The Stumphouse tunnels have had in the past up to 400 tri colored bats hibernating during the Winter and ever since white nose syndrome hit in South Carolina which is about 2013 those populations have been declining dramatically to the point where there's about 30 left.

It's been really scary to watch those populations decline.

However, there is hope in that those populations haven't hit zero.

Dr. Lois was telling us that one of the females that had been banned in years previous has been coming back.

So, there is some hope that some of the species can survive.

It's just keeping those populations at a high enough level that they can continue to reproduce is the key.

<Amanda> Are they just watching them or are they actually have some treatments and progress that they're comparing and researching?

<Jennifer> Right.

And so the middle tunnel is part of - Stump house is part of a larger study looking a treatment for these hibernacula that involve volatile organic compounds that are from a bacteria that slows the growth of fungus, specifically it started out with slowing the bananas from ripening actually is where it started.

<Amanda> My goodness.

<Jennifer> So someone said, I wonder what this does to white nose syndrome, to fungus.

They found a way to aerosolize and put it in the cave to see if they are they can get the fungus to grow less quickly so the bats can get through the winter and come out and eat and survive.

So, they're doing that diamond tunnel in Georgia and the Stumphouse tunnel is being used as a control for that study.

<Amanda> So this hibernaculum means a place where they hibernate in groups is that what it's called or is that just in general?

Do some bats have a hibernaculum that's solitary?

<Jennifer> That's right.

Yes.

Hibernacula is any place where they spend their winters waiting you know surviving until their insects are consumed.

A lot of times that means having a hibernaculum might have groups of bats.

You could also have little tiny cracks in a rock somewhere where eastern small footed bats might be and that would be their hibernacula.

<Amanda> Uh huh.

Okay.

Well, let's talk about some of the ones that we have that we're most likely to encounter, although not many people encounter bats unless they have an old house in the mountains.

We used to occasionally have one and there'd be a bat out there.

When we'd go to the bathroom at night we'd have to put a sheet on our head if there was a bat flying around because we were scared of them.

Actually in my house, I've had what I've been told is a nurse colony in a soffit up in the attic.

So, near the attic.

So, they're not in the attic.

They're in something that is connected.

I'm not much of a builder We would go outside and watch them come out in the evening and it was very beautiful.

It's a clapboard house and it would look, Jennifer, like mercury.

Because the clapboards, they would come out between them and it was so fluid looking and then they would just come drift and then suddenly they would be gone.

and I really never really worried about it.

I would go up there at the end of the year.

I had a little tarp.

There was a little bit of bat droppings.

What do you call that droppings?

<Jennifer> Guano.

<Amanda> Okay.

I guess it was imported for fertilizer for a while.

I think.

<Jennifer> That's right.

Yeah, <Amanda> I would just go up there and put a bandanna on and take the vacuum because it was just a little bit that we would have but... and I just really didn't worry about it.

What do you think?

<Jennifer> Yeah.

Well, first of all, I want to say I love that description of bats.

If anybody gets a chance to observe bats emerging.

It is really a beautiful sight like you said.

They just kind of flow out, which is really fascinating.

Yes, so bats are known to use attics as well as bat boxes and barns and things like that as well.

You do have to be cognizant of potential risks when you have any wildlife species in and near your house.

So, with bats in an attic, generally you have to be careful about histoplasmosis which is a fungus and it's a disease caused by a fungus and that fungus you can get if there is a huge pile of guano and you're kicking it around and you're in an enclosed space.

So, basically having a mask and doing that kind of thing to make sure you don't breathe in guano is important.

<Amanda> And we didn't have a large amount.

It was just kind of scattered a little bit on the floor.

Yeah, so.

We should be careful about bats because like any wild animal, you know, raccoons and skunks and all those things, they can potentially carry rabies, but are they just is a bat colony just full of rabid bats or is it relatively isolated?

<Jennifer> Good question.

This is something that people need to know more about because rabies is such a scary disease.

It really is an incurable thing but you have to... if you're smart about wildlife, then you should be fine.

So, for bats a study in Canada showed that less than one percent of the national bat population they studied had rabies.

So, they are not riddled with rabies.

So one thing though you have to keep in mind is people seem like they're more likely to pick up a sick looking bat than they are a rabid raccoon or something else.

You see a bat on the ground don't be tempted to pick it up.

I know it's small and cute.

But you do have to be cognizant of disease and wildlife, any wildlife.

And another thing to note, as well is the other mammals can carry rabies.

So bats are not the only species that can carry rabies.

<Amanda> So... of course a bat lying on the ground, you come walking up there's something wrong with it.

So don't mess with it.

It's kind of like snakes.

Don't mess with the snake.

Yeah, but people who work with bats like you do, ya'll take precautions.

Ya'll have rabies shots kind of in a special way so it's safe for ya'll to do that, but suppose I just come downstairs one morning and open the kitchen door there's a bat in there, and I open the door to the outside and the bat flies out, is that probably is that something to worry about or not?

<Jennifer> Yes.

Good question.

So if you have a bat in your house and you should definitely still call DHEC before you do anything with it.

Call them so they can walk through, whether or not you've potentially been exposed to the bat.

So, even if the bat is unlikely to have rabies, you still have to be careful and so it's important not to let the bat out if you don't know whether or not you've been exposed.

So, if you have any concerns whatsoever just call DHEC and they'll help you with that and they'll test the bat for you to make sure everybody's safe.

Something to keep in mind is if you've got children or pets that can't tell you whether or not they've been bit or they don't know they've been bit, then that's a reason to have the bat tested.

<Amanda> So don't - If you went to your child's bedroom and opened the door and there were bat in there, I shouldn't try to get that bat out of the room.

I should get my child out and shut the door and call DHEC They will come in and do an intervention if necessary.

<Jennifer> Exactly.

Make yourself safe first but yes that's exactly right.

<Amanda> And just like you would, we all are careful to keep, We've had possums in the house.

I don't think possums carry rabies.

We've had raccoons on the back porch.

We're eating our cat food and we all need to be cautious that wild animals can carry diseases and that they're not to be messed with.

They're not pets.

They may look cute and friendly but they need to be respected.

Let's talk about some of the ones that we have in South Carolina.

What's the most common bat that we have?

<Jennifer> The Eastern Red bats.

Yes and those are beautiful.

They are red.

They're sort of a brick red color.

When people think about bats I think they think of like dark, boring species but these guys are beautiful and in fact.

We also have Northern Yellow bats and various other species but Eastern Red bat is really a very common bat species and you've probably seen, if you've seen about flying around.

It might have been a red because they like to perch, fly around in lights where insects are coming to.

So, quite a few people have seen Eastern Red bass flying around at night.

<Amanda> Do they group together to have their babies and in the winter time or are they more solitary?

<Jennifer> Those are more solitary.

So that tree species is known to roost in the foliage of trees.

(laughs) and or Spanish moss, as well as the Northern Yellow bats like to roost in the dead palm fronds of the palmetto trees.

One thing that we tell people is if they can keep those dead palm fronds on your palmetto trees, you might have one of the largest bat species in the state roosting in there, that's yellow, which is so cool.

<Amanda> That is fabulous news because as a horticulturist many people want to cut the palm fronds off as soon as they begin to brown a little bit which is really taking a lot of photosynthetic material away from the tree.

It's harmful to the tree.

So, you've just given me a wonderful, wonderful reason to tell people to let those trees get a little bit shaggy.

Thank you.

<Jennifer> Everybody loves shaggy palmetto.

<Amanda> Thank you so much.

We have here whose kind of fun.

Is there one that's got a Brazilian name but really is here?

<Jennifer> Yes.

The Brazilian Free Tailed bat.

It sounds pretty exotic but they're pretty common in the state now.

Their range has been expanding northward for some time.

So, they are resident to the state.

And some individuals might migrate, but we have found them in the state year round.

They are the fastest flying animal in the world.

I don't know if we talked about this already.

<Amanda> We did but that's okay.

<Jennifer> They're really cool because they've got that little free tail that extends past the wing membrane and they're fairly common.

So, it's kind of neat to have that species be you know, in so many areas in South Carolina.

<Amanda> So, if that little bat is out looking for supper and she misses it, she doesn't have that connected bottom of her wing that we said earlier.

She's got to really be a good target, a good flier to get that insect on the first round, doesn't she?

<Jennifer> Right.

Especially at 100 miles an hour I just (joop) <Amanda> Do you have one that's your favorite?

<Jennifer> Oh!

Wow.

That's tough I love the tri-colored bats because they're... we look at their populations when they're hibernating by going into some of these caves and mines in the winter and we're very quiet and don't disturb them, but what I love about it is some of these old mines are gold mines.

So we're a different explorer looking for different kind of gem.

So, we walk in there and well sometimes crawl in there we see these beautiful little gems of the Tri-Colored bats and they- I say gems because they collect condensation over the winter.

They're just sparkling little dew drops.

That's a lot of fun to go in there and see those guys.

But, the Hoary bat is a large species that is a tree species and it's got three different colors.

It's got silver and black and mahogany on it.

So, it's a really beautiful bat.

And so it's difficult to choose one.

But those are some finer ones.

<Amanda> I think when we were talking earlier, I think you told me one of them has a little bit of a fur coat on his wing.

<Jennifer> That's right.

That's right.

A lot of the tree bats do.

The Eastern Red that we were talking about because it doesn't hibernate for long periods of time it has a furry uropatagium.

So most of its wing membrane is furred and so it snuggles up in the winter with its warm fur blanket basically to keep it from getting too cold.

So that's a pretty fascinating morphological thing they have and it's super cute.

<Amanda> Here we are I mean you got an animal that flies the only mammal that flies and they're 14 hundred species and just in the few little ones we were talking about in South Carolina, look at the diversity, the adaptations they've made, you know, to fit all the different little possible ecosystems and you know tiny ways they can make a living.

I just find this fascinating.

I think I'm going have to become more of a bat person.

<Jennifer> You know who to call I could talk your ear off.

(laughing) <Amanda> There are things that we could do to help bats.

I'm just going to say since we know that as you know a man is encroaching on the natural environment and those places are tighter I think the more that we can do to support land trusts and conservation trusts and probe where the state helps DNR and other agencies protect certain very valuable and unusual places, that's important.

Don't you think?

<Jennifer> Yeah it really is because habitat loss is a huge issue for many species and it and it is also a big problem for bats as well.

So, if they've got that space to survive some of the species might be able to get through white nosed syndrome if we can just provide them what they need in order to get through it and adapt to it.

<Amanda> Then Bat Conservation International, because as we know, bats are everywhere except in the arctic and the Antarctic.

I guess people are getting - since we're seeing them.

We're more interested in things.

they have apparently a lot of emphasis on putting up bat houses Is that effective?

<Jennifer> It is.

You have to be more patient than a lot of bird boxes because it can take up to three years for bats to find and use your box.

But the best way to make sure - The best thing to do to get bats to come to the box is make sure it's in the right place.

So, it needs to be 12 to 14 feet high, not near trees, so they can go in and out of the box easily.

You need to have about six hours of sun.

If you live on the coast, I would recommend, probably closer to four, cause they can get a little too hot, a pink color that's a medium color kind of depending where you're at, but again check out Bat Conservation International and they have a section on bat houses to tell you more about that.

But we usually recommend two different kinds of bat boxes.

There's the rocket box, which is basically a rectangular box on top of rectangular box on top of a rectangular box.

So, you got multiple chambers at every side.

They can crawl around in and actually even crawl through the little holes between the spacers.

They have.

That's really the best one you can provide for them because they can pick their room that they preferred to be in.

<Amanda> That kind of sounds like Goldilocks saying this bed is just right.

She tried them all out and said this is the one I like.

<Jennifer> Exactly.

(laughing) It's best.

<Amanda> That was the rocket box.

What's another one that might be less complicated that we could get and put up in our yard?

<Jennifer> The multi chamber boxes So there's a four chamber box design that Bat Conservation International has and if you've ever seen a bat box, it's probably the one you're thinking of, which it's just a regular box and it's got multiple dividers on the inside.

So, they don't recommend the single chambers anymore.

It's not big enough for a maternity colony but 4 chambers is a good one, especially if you can put two boxes back to back and they can have a box to pick and also had a large economy size potentially.

<Amanda> My brother and my husband and I went out shortly after Christmas and went to - Well, first we went to the Congaree National Park and there were about a hundred cars in the parking lot.

We said that just wasn't the experience we were looking for.

We drove about 15 miles back to Calhoun County where I live to Congaree Bluffs Heritage Preserve which is controlled by DNR, I believe and there was one other car there.

That seemed pretty nice.

They had a box back there.

Jennifer we were really curious about, it was painted a pretty dark green and I felt like it would have gotten awfully hot.

So, do they want to be very warm?

<Jennifer> Right.

They do.

Yes.

So for the boxes are usually mostly used as maternity colonies.

The pups need at least 100 degrees Fahrenheit to survive, especially without the mother around, when they're out and night feeding.

And so, yes.

So that's probably why they painted it a darker color so that they can, the sun would absorb that heat and keep those bats warm.

<Amanda> That's so the little babies will stay warm enough at night.

That's right.

That's cool I'm glad.

I just thought, "Boy, that looks too hot to me."

Well, you actually have some opportunities I think it's you and do you have a technician maybe.

<Jennifer> Yes.

We have a bat team.

<Amanda> Tell me what those of us who would like to be more involved, are there some volunteer opportunities?

<Jennifer> There are.

So you can feel free to anyone can feel free to contact me about these various opportunities.

Some of them are on Internet.

Some aren't.

So the first one is helping with culvert surveys.

And this winter we're looking.

<Amanda> With a culvert cold, like the big pikes you see on the roads and things?

<Jennifer> Yes.

Exactly.

We're picking the larger culverts under highways actually, looking for bats hibernating in those.

So, yes we're looking for anybody that wants to come out with boots and things like that ready for the field and we take measurements on the culvert So we're looking for bats but we're also taking measurements for our for our partners at South Eastern Aquatic Resources.

They want to know whether these culverts are aquatic barriers to aquatic life and we're helping them measure the water levels in the culverts, as well.

Two birds with one stone in that, but other things that we have going on is in the summer we're hoping to net bats.

So, we talked a little bit about COVID and how we were worried about giving COVID to bats and so we'll be wearing KN-95 masks to make sure that we don't accidentally pass COVID to our bats, but other than that we'd love to have people come out and record information for us and help us set up the mist nets, which are very similar to bird mist nets.

And so you won't be touching the bats of course because you don't have pre-exposure rabies vaccinations but you would be able to see the bats up close and help us collect all the data.

It's really fascinating and really cool to see bats up close and even just being out at night is so fun, seeing all the different kinds of fireflies that are flying around and you get to see the gator glow when you're talking - (laughing) They're far enough away but it's pretty exciting but then also as well as the larger moth species a really beautiful to see and sometimes we catch them on a net but mostly we just see them flying around.

It's a great experience.

We also have a citizen science program called South Carolina Bat watch.

And so if you know of a maternity colony of bats that are emerging from bat boxes in the Spring and Summer, all you have to do is go to the website.

We have a site for that.

We also have an app for that.

So, you can estimate bats coming out of wherever it is.

It's either your bat box or a barn or somewhere else.

And you estimate the numbers coming out which is pretty fun because you just sit down in a lawn chair, enjoy watching the sunset and then you see these guys coming out which is really neat.

So, you take two counts.

One count before the pups are bull length, which means before they can fly and one count after they can fly.

<Amanda> I don't know what the gestation period is for bats but how long after the little baby's born does it stay in that chamber, or even if there if they're individualized?

How long do they stay with their mother?

<Jennifer> For at least a few weeks.

<Amanda> They do?

<Jennifer> Yeah.

So - they're born pretty, they're born naked like a lot of other little mammals are and need a lot of help.

They all hang out in there in the box for a few weeks as they grown and as the parents come in and feed them as the mother comes and feeds them.

<Amanda> So the mother comes back in the morning and knows where her baby is and goes - Does the baby hold on to the mother while it nurses?

Do they have a way that happens?

<Jennifer> Yes they do exactly.

They do.

They'll hold on to the mother exactly as you said.

Some species actually - some of those trees species we were talking about earlier, move quite a bit, every night or every few nights.

So they carry the babies with them which is really cool.

<Amanda> That is something - <Jennifer> It's impressive.

<Amanda> All this is happening, hanging upside down by their feet <Jennifer> Yes exactly.

<Amanda> A new twist on child care.

<Jennifer> That's right.

Could you imagine?

I thought carrying two was hard enough.

I couldn't imagine flying too.

(laughing) <Amanda> Then my friends people who watch Making It Grow hear we talk a lot about Hank Stallworth and Ann Nolty who both work for DNR in years past and Hank drives kind of fast and we'd ride with him a lot, pre-COVID.

But he said it was the hardest thing he ever did.

He was involved in one volunteer project, I think he couldn't go more than like 25 miles an hour.

Tell us about that project.

<Jennifer> Yes.

That's a fun one.

<Amanda> For little old ladies like me <Jennifer> It's so funny Yes, so we have the other projects we have going on The North American Bat Monitoring program, as a national program.

And we've been a part of it as in South Carolina since it began in 2015.

And so what is involved is it's a acoustic survey, surveying for about bat calls that occurs state wide and what happens is we have a certain amount of equipment that record bat calls and we start on the coast and we have folks who are willing to put out stationary sites where they'll put up the acoustic device for a week and record bat calls for a week at night.

There's another kind called the mobile routes and those people will drive as Hank did, so kindly.

It's so nice that he did that for us.

But yes there are protocols.

You have to drive 25 miles an hour.

And there are up pre-laid out routes that you would drive.

And so this happens during the same week every year for each area.

We'll start on the coast and work our way up the state and cover the state by the end of the season.

The idea is you're collecting all these bat calls and it's a really efficient way to monitor bats statewide, because as you can imagine with netting, it's a lot of efforts and its only for one spot and it takes a lot of hands.

it's for the acoustics it's really nice to be able to set them out and record bat calls and then you analyze them.

You come back to see what species you have.

<Amanda> The sound is different.

They make different sounds according to the different species.

<Jennifer> Exactly.

It's really fun to look into that too.

You've got the different little call blips, basically and then some of them make the higher pitch flat ones.

I'm being very scientific right now.

The flat ones, the higher ones but yeah they're are different kinds.

<Amanda> What you have done is given us enough of the science but also enough of the charm and fascination and unknown about bats that I think many people in South Carolina would like to know more and so they can go to SCDNR.

I think you have a lot of information there.

If they want to volunteer, they could reach you.

We'll put up your email and everything, if that's okay.

I hope that you'll get some more volunteers.

Maybe people with good woodwork shops will make some of those boxes for us.

Jennifer thank you so much for sharing this fascinating information and I hope that we demystified and made people have more compassion and interest in bats thanks again.

<Jennifer> Thank you so much.

It's so great to be able to do this.

It's - They're such a mysterious species and having facts out there about bats is super important because we really do depend on them and a lot of ways and so it's good to know how amazing they really are.

Thank you.

<Amanda> At DNR's website, you can find a lot of fascinating information on bats and also at Bats International.

Terasa, I think that of course we know what a kind heart you have towards all animals I think at one time you even trying to provide some homes for bats.

<Terasa> You are right.

It's funny you mentioned flying earlier, I think if I'm not mistaken bats are the only mammal capable of true flight.

So there's a fun fact for you to share, but I did lead a make your own bat box workshop at a previous position where we were looking at conservation and I think that would be a great activity for families who maybe had some moderate woodworking abilities.

There are plans available online.

I think the National Wildlife Federation has some plans for you.

And of course they are available commercially too if woodworking isn't really your thing.

<Amanda> Well, it would give people and their families something to do at night.

Wouldn't it?

That would be fun to go out and see the bats leaving the bat boxes.

<Terasa> That would.

Unfortunately, bats maybe have a bad reputation or people are fearful.

But they really are amazing creatures and have a purpose in the grand scheme of life.

<Amanda> We're going to learn more about that purpose when we speak with Susan Loeb.

Susan is an employee of the Forestry Department the United States Forestry Department but she's been stationed at Clemson for decades now doing very important work up there about forest ecology and bats.

<Amanda> I'm speaking with Susan Loeb and Susan is a research ecologist stationed at Clemson.

Susan you are actually employed by the federal government with the forestry department.

Is that correct?

<Susan Loeb> That's correct.

I work for the Southern Research Station.

<Amanda> And you specifically study bats and of course right now that's a very critically important topic because we're learning a lot about bats.

First of all, are bats responsible for the pandemic that we're in right now?

<Susan> Well, what we know is that the virus that causes COVID-19 is a SARS CoV2.

and it is very similar to a virus that has been found in a bat in China.

They're about 96 percent similar.

So, it's not completely similar and so there was probably an intermediary host between the bat and eventually into humans.

There's not a direct connection there.

<Amanda> We can't blame it on the bats.

<Susan> Certainly not.

<Amanda> I think part of what's happening is there used to be a separation between man and many wild animals and now as we've expanded so.

There's so much less of that space, we just have so much more interface and it's more likely that these things can happen.

<Susan> Correct.

As we lose more and more habitats, bats have to start searching out new areas and there are just more interactions between bats and humans and other animals.

<Amanda> We talked earlier with Jennifer about the importance, especially in our part of the world, that bats have in insect suppression and with agriculture farming.

You are a forestry specialists.

Do bats eat insects that are dangerous or harmful to trees?

Are they important in forest ecology?

<Susan> Yes they are just as important in forest ecology as they are in agricultural systems.

So, they eat a number of insects that are pests in forestry situations and we can't quantify.

It's very difficult to quantify that but we do know that they do eat a lot of insects that are important pests for forestry.

<Amanda> You have studied how forest management can affect the health of bats what are some of the things that you discovered from your research?

<Susan> Well, we've looked at a number of forest management activities One in particular that we've looked at is prescribed fire which is used a lot for reducing fuel, so decreasing the chance of wildfire and also for restoring forests.

And what we have found is that in general, most bat species respond in a positive way to prescribed fire.

So, if you put fire through an area that we see an increase in bat use, both for foraging and for roosting.

<Amanda> Okay and from things we talked earlier with some of our forestry experts they tell us that increases the number of flowering plants on the forest floor, which then brings in insects, which - that's what bats need.

Isn't it?

<Susan> It's the insects and also bats need sort of open spaces for foraging.

So, when you run a prescribed fire through there you reduced a lot of what we call clutter in the forest and that makes it a lot easier for them to fly through that area and also catch insects on the wing.

<Amanda> All right.

Well I'm glad to hear another reason for prescribed fire because it certainly mean, we know that it also can prevent catastrophic fires that get out of hand.

One thing that we hear a lot about now is the bats in Stumphouse Tunnel which has such a history with Clemson University because of the blue cheese and it's just a fascinating place.

Tell me what ya'll have been discovering up there, please.

<Susan> Well, I've been studying the bats in Stumphouse Tunnel since 2014 along with my graduate students and one of the first things that we have done is documented the decline in the Tri-colored bat populations due to white nose syndrome.

This is a fungal disease that has affected bats throughout the eastern United States and has now moved to the west.

So, in 2014 there were 321 bats in the tunnel which is about what had been in there for the past, probably 10, 20 years.

There was no evidence of the disease at that time but between 2014 and 2015, the disease did come into the tunnel and what we saw was a drastic decline in the population So, in 2015 there were about 150 bats, the following year, there were about 60 bats and eventually it bottomed out around 30 bats - over the last - Yes.

There was over a 98 percent decline in this population due to this disease.

Over the last few years we've seen that the population has leveled out and maybe, may be increasing So, in 2020 in February, we had 41 bats.

So, a slight increase.

and then we counted them in November and December and we had 55 bats.

But we don't know and that's early in the season.

So we'll have to see at the end of February what that final number is to see whether we are finally seeing maybe a stable or increase in the population.

<Amanda> It may be that the bats are developing some - some of the bats have more resistance than other.

They're more successful at reproducing.

We're not sure but at least we see some signs of encouragement.

<Susan> Right.

And one of the things that we have noticed is that in the last few years, we see more and more bats in the front part of the tunnel whereas in the back in 2014 and 2015 most of the bats were in the back part of the tunnel.

Well the front part of the tunnel is colder than the back part and so the fungus grows more quickly in temperatures that are you usually find in the back part of the tunnel.

<Amanda> Aha!

<Susan> It may be due to - I'm not sure.

And we're studying this more closely now with the new graduate students to see whether the bats are changing their behavior and whether that is slowing down the growth of the fungus.

<Amanda> All right and I believe other researchers are actually trying out some sprays or treatments that we're not doing that at Clemson.

So, this is being studied throughout this area to see if something can be done to improve the chances of bats by ability with this white nose fungus.

<Susan> Yes.

There are a number of different types of treatments that are being tested.

One of them is looking at volatile organic compounds and one of those studies is being conducted over in Black Diamond Tunnel, which is over near Clayton.

And that was actually again tying into Stumphouse Tunnel.

Originally, the railroad was going to go through Black Diamond as well as through Stumphouse.

So, we kind of use that study is using Stumphouse as a control where we're not using that compound and they too have seen sort of the stabilization of the population, similar to what we've seen in Stumphouse.

<Amanda> Well, that is encouraging and also it's interesting that since man is responsible for so much of the habitat destruction that in this case, two man made caves do serve as hibernacula, I guess, is the right word.

I hope for the bats.

Susan, thank you and I believe that people can go to your, if thy search Susan Loeb at Clemson they can find some of the things that you're studying and keep up with this research that's going on.

<Susan> Correct.

Yes.

<Amanda> I want to thank you so much for what you are doing.

It's an important animal and the more we can learn to understand it the more we can appreciate its importance in the ecology and health of our whole world but particularly our forests and where we live in South Carolina.

Thank you so much for spending time with us.

<Susan> Thank you.

And thank you for your interest.

<Amanda> Maybe now, you'll go outside looking for bats near your home.

Night Night.

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