♪ opening music ♪ ♪ Gavin>> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

As the war in Ukraine continues to escalate, humanitarian efforts have become critical.

As millions are facing food insecurity issues.

Something more than 270 million people worldwide grappled with before this latest crisis.

Former Governor David Beasley now the executive director of the World Food Program, joins us to talk about what is needed to help the people of Ukraine and the world.

But first, more from this week.

At the Statehouse this week, the University of South Carolina flag flew over the dome Monday, the day after the women's basketball team won the national championship, and on Wednesday, lawmakers celebrated the team's victory over the University of Connecticut to claim their second title in five years.

Rep. Rutherford>>Some thought that we couldn't beat them.

Some worried that they may be really the number one and we were just given the title.

They won 64 to 49.

That is not simply winning, like some of the boys games.

That is not simply winning like some other championships.

That is a domination and a show of force and a show of class.

Gavin>> The team also crossed the lobby to be honored by the Senate.

The celebratory atmosphere came a day after House lawmakers spent hours debating the controversial Save Women's Sports Act that would prohibit transgender women from middle school through college from playing on sports teams that don't correspond to the sex they were assigned at birth.

The bill's sponsor Republican Ashley Trantham was one of only a few Republicans to speak on the bill.

Rep. Trantham>> House Bill 4608 has become more urgent than ever, especially for collegiate athletes after the NCAA's recent actions.

Rather than standing for female athletes by adopting a policy that ensures fairness, the NCAA punted to a patchwork of national, and international organizations, some of which allow male bodied athletes to compete on women's team with no preconditions and others of which have no policy at all.

It is urgent for this body to set a clear, fair and scientifically based policy to guide schools, colleges throughout the state and to guarantee equal opportunity for our daughters and granddaughters to participate and win.

Gavin>> Democrats filed hundreds of amendments and spoke on them for hours Tuesday, raising concerns over economic, social and legal issues, among others that they say the bill presents.

>> This bill...says that a student...who is deprived of an athletic opportunity.

I didn't hear anybody ...and I listened to Ms. Trantham speak, talk about the definition of an athletic opportunity.

...And remember, this bill did not go through judiciary.

So, it did not define athletic opportunity, but those of you that are following her down this path, be mindful, athletic opportunity.

So a student who is deprived of an athletic opportunity or suffers any direct or indirect harm, meaning somebody else was bothered by it, and the student was bothered by the fact that they were bothered by it, and we now give them a cause of action to sue a public institution, and they can sue under a private cause of action for injunctive relief, damages and any other relief available under the law against a school or public post secondary institution.

It is a lawyer's dream.

Gavin>> Kingstree Democratic Representative, Cezar McKnight was one of eight Democrats backing the bill and the only one to publicly voice his support for it.

Rep. McKnight>> I've heard and I share the concerns of how transgender children may deal with this...but I have to ask the question, how are our little girls going to deal with this?

What am I going to tell Claire, when she goes out to compete...and she may have to run against a boy and she loses?

How do I console my child?

Do you want me to lie to her and tell her that, "It's okay, honey.

If you work a little harder, "you'll eventually win"?...

No.

So, just like those transgender children have feelings, concerns that need to be thought about, our little girls do too.

...and I can be against something and not hate the people that are on the other side of that issue.

It is too late in the day for us to be drawing silly lines like that of either just black and white, absolute.

Gavin>> The bill passed 82 to 28.

It was officially sent to the Senate on Wednesday, a day before the crossover deadline, which is when bills need to make it to another chamber in order to have any chances of making it to the governor's desk by the end of session next month.

One bill soon to reach the governor's desk would prohibit public employers from imposing COVID-19 vaccine mandates on their employees.

House lawmakers are on furlough next week and the Senate will continue working on its calendar as it prepares to debate the $14 billion dollar budget later this month.

With less than a month to go till sine die, things will ramp up before the official end of the two year session on May 12th.

>> Joining me now to discuss the global hunger crisis is former South Carolina governor and World Food Program Director David Beasley.

Governor Beasley thank you for making time for us today.

>> Ah, it's good to be with you.

Thank you very much.

>>Sir, let's just get right into it and talk about Ukraine.

That's the big crisis facing the world right now.

You've been on the ground there several times over the past few weeks.

What's it like?

What's the need, like there, right now?

David Beasley>> Well, the need as you can imagine, in what almost every television show around the world is reporting is the misery, suffering, women and children stuck in the cold on borders, as well as, people dying in the streets, during the, this extraordinary conflict that's taking place inside Ukraine.

I have been not just on the border and have seen miles, I mean, a line of family, mostly women and children, because the men are on the front lines, and women are on the front lines too, but literally watching for miles upon miles, just families in line trying to get out of harm's way in the brutal cold, in the wet...and actually, you could say, Gavin, these are the lucky ones because they are out of harm's way.

They're being met on the border by loving strangers that are receiving them giving them shelter, giving them food ...and then you've got 40 million people still inside Ukraine that are going to be struggling to get food as we speak.

Gavin>> Can you talk to us about those logistics?

How hard is it to reach those folks, both in the country and then people that are now displaced through the European continent?

David Beasley>> Well, 80% of our operations at the World Food Program are in war zones and areas of conflict.

So, we know how to do this, but this is quite a unique situation, what we're seeing inside Ukraine.

You've got a country that normally produces enough food for 400 million people around the world.

So, there's going to be an incredible impact outside Ukraine, as well as an impact inside Ukraine because supply chain systems are breaking down because the trains have stopped.

Not all of them.

But, some of the trains have stopped, trucking systems, farmers that should normally be in the fields and in trucks or on the battlefront, right, doing what they need to do to protect their homeland, and so, when you're trying to protect the supply chain system it's one thing to come in and feed a million people one time, but it's another thing to feed a million people or five million people or six million people every day for weeks and months.

That's a whole different operation...and that's what we're scaling up to do as we speak.

Gavin>>...and is that bringing food into places like Kiev or other big cities in Ukraine at this point?

David Beasley>> Well, right now, we've already scaled up or reached about a million people.

We will be scaling up for the month of April to two and a half million people, four million next month, and six million people in June...and so that's what we're doing now.

We're the people that cannot get the food they need and Kiev...and what do we do about Mariupol, a country...a city that's completely besieged in other places around the nation.

>>...and sir, Ukraine is a major world food supplier.

You mentioned that a moment ago.

What are some of the ripple effects we're already seeing?

Obviously, you know, the growing season, the planting, season, harvesting, all things happening right around now.

What are you guys seeing right now in terms of the ripple effects of this invasion?

David Beasley>> This is what's really extraordinary about this conflict, this war inside Ukraine.

It's not going to impact only the 43 million people in the country.

It's going to impact the entire world.

Before the Ukraine crisis.

We were already facing a perfect storm.

We had seen the number of people marching towards starvation spike from 135 million to 276 million people pre- Ukraine.

We were already seeing fuel costs spike, food costs spike, shipping costs spike, and then on top of that comes Ukraine, which produces enough food to feed 400 million people, but on top of that, they produce along with Russia.

30% of all the world's supply of wheat, 20% of the world's supply of maize, corn 75% to 80% of the world's supply of cooking oil, I mean not cooking oil, but sunflower seed oil, which is used for cooking, fertilizers that are produced, 40% of the base product for fertilizers around the world, Belarus and Russia.

So, if we lose all that, it's not going to be just a pricing problem for the rest of the world, it's going to be a supply chain problem, which means lack of availability of food, and if you have that, compounded with pricing, you're going to have destabilization and nations around the world, this is what we're facing.

It's going to be a crisis upon a crisis, as we look probably, to the fall when all this will come to the head, because right now, the planting needs to be taking place in Ukraine, for maize for corn, and that's this month...and if the farmers can't get out of the field to plant the corn, well, you're not going to have a corn crop.

Then, in June and July is when you harvest for the wheat.

Well, if the farmers are on the front line, and we can't harvest the wheat, well, or have the inputs, you know, tending to the crops... in the meantime.

Now, let me let me also touch on another problem.

All the silos inside Ukraine are full right now, we can't get this grain out to the rest of the world...and so if those silos are full, and we do have a good crop, what do we do with the harvest?

So, it's a heck of a problem that the world is going to have to respond to immediately.

Otherwise, we're going to have massive global food security issues around the world.

Gavin>> Gotcha...and you're talking about 276 million people right now having insecurity issues with food.

Do you know what that...can be projected to if all this comes to a head, like we're talking about?

David Beasley>> We're talking about an additional 30 million on top of the 276 million in the next 30 days, if this war is not brought to an end.

In the next 90 days, if this war is not curtailed, or brought to an end, you'll see that number even go up to over 50 additional million people.

So, that will bring over 300, 325 million people that will be marching towards starvation.

Now, Gavin, understand I'm not talking about people that will be chronically hungry.

That's a whole different ball game.

We're talking about people that don't know where their next meal is coming from, and that means they're either going to be mass migrating, or you will have destabilization of nations and famine, which will be starvation beyond anything we've seen, definitely, since World War Two.

Gavin>>And Governor, you've been sounding the alarm on this a lot lately, and really getting people's attention because it is just really just now creeping now blowing up, essentially, due to this invasion, but let's talk about some solutions here.

Is there anything that the American farmer can do that you're trying to work with American agriculture to help tackle this possible supply issue?

David Beasley>> Well, the American farmer has been a critical part of our support system for feeding people around the world, the United States has just been extraordinary in terms of taking surplus grains, and taking that to feed the poorest of the poor around the world...and it stabilizes nations and it keeps mass migration by necessity down so the farmers can play a key role.

However, having said that, we're worried about not just farmers in the United States, for farmers around the world getting the fertilizers they need.

If they can't get the fertilizers they need, you're talking about a harvest or yield that will decrease by 50% at minimum in places around the world.

We're already seeing major issues that farmers in the United States, as well as in South America, as well as Africa and Europe...and so one of the things that we talked, I talked with the G7 ministers of agriculture about a week and a half ago was how does the world, the leaders around the world offset by immediate short term solutions, the amount of grain and food that will not be available because of the war inside Ukraine, and so, like their set aside lands and the fertilizer issues, a lot of green issues that the leaders are going to have to talk about on a short term basis that we may have to mitigate, to provide short term solutions, or food availability for people around the world.

Imagine what will happen if there's not enough food for people in New York or Chicago or LA?

I mean, it will be.

It will be hell on earth.

Gavin>> Exactly...and that's what you're trying to prevent here, and...you know, also raising money to prevent like you're in the state the other day with former Governor Jim Hodges, former New York Governor George Pataki really making this case, to the American people, to the wealthiest of us about what's going on and what they can do to fix it.

What's the reception been like?

I know it's only been a couple of days, but what are you hearing?

Have you seen some donations coming in?

How much money do you need?

>> Yeah, well, that's the thing.

We're short billions of dollars because of these crisis that we're facing.

We were already cutting rations.

50% in multiple countries all over the world because we are billions of dollars short because of the perfect storm of conflict, climate and COVID, the ripple effect that's taking place.

Now Ukraine, etc.

on top of all this, and so, people are stepping up.

We're getting a millions of more dollars coming in, But quite frankly, the need is so great...and I can tell you, quite frankly, you know, people say, "Gosh.

I can't make a difference in that", but you know what, we feed a child for about 25 cents, and if some, even if a young person can give a dollar, that's four meals, for a child or four children that'll get a meal.

We're also appealing to the world's billionaires, who made on average, and I'm for people making money, but I'm also for people who make money to give back in a time like this when the world is in trouble.

So, the world's billionaires in the height of COVID, had a net worth increase, net worth increase now, of $5.2 billion per day, all I'm asking for is give me one or two days worth of your net worth increase, to solve one of the greatest crisis the world has ever faced, and that's what we need, is money.

(If) we get the money, we will be able to do three things.

Number one, we'll be able to save lives.

Number two, we will... be able to prevent nations from destabilizing ...and number three, we will be able to prevent migration by necessity ...and if we don't, not only will people die, but it'll cost us thousands of times more than it is to reach people at their home.

Gavin>>...and that's something that affects billionaires too.

So that's all connected there.

Like you're saying, you know.

I do remember from last October, you were talking to Tesla CEO, Elon Musk on Twitter.

He's talking about, you know, what could $6 billion do to alleviate world hunger, and there was some back and forth.

He ended up did selling...he ended up selling some stock there.

Did any of that money makes its way to the World Food Program?

David Beasley>> ...you know, hadn't made it our way yet, but I'm still hoping.

(Both laugh) He's a smart guy, you know, and people give him a tough time, but I'd tell you, I do think if he and I could sit down one on one, I'd be able to convince him to really do the right thing.

Gavin>>...and is it hard to do, governor when you're talking to billionaires to help them give you money for conflict zones for places that, you know, you're trying to help people in conflicts in war torn countries where there are leaders that are, you know, corrupt, in some cases?

There's just not really, you know, the infrastructure in place to get this food to the people a lot... which is where you guys come in.

But, what's it like to have to fundraise and let people know that it's just a very difficult world out there?

David Beasley>> You know, what I have found?

I know in the United States, my home country, I have found when people hear, when they know there's suffering and struggling, I've never found that the American people didn't step up, and quite frankly, in the last few years, and when you cut on, you know, the news in the last four or five years, it's been 95%, Trump, Trump, Trump or Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, or COVID, COVID COVID...and the people just haven't heard how bad it is.

I think people are now becoming aware of how bad it is...and I just trust the American people when they know, they will step up...and so, thank you for allowing us to get this message out, because everyone can play a very serious, significant, effective role in helping keep children and families alive, whether it's a dollar from a child, or a billion dollars from a billionaire.

They all are needed right now, Gavin>> Governor, can you kind of give us some insight into how you negotiate with these different countries, when you go and visit, you know, Ethiopia, when you've met with the Taliban, when you talk to some of these different governments?

What's it like?

What are you telling to them about the ramifications of these actions?

David Beasley>> You know, we get that kind of question, as you can imagine a lot.

It's like, alright, when you're in a war zone, you're dealing with Taliban or the Hutus or Al-Qaeda or ISIS, or a very difficult government to deal with, what we do is shoot straight.

We say, Look, we're not here to play politics.

We're not here to play games.

We're here as impartial, neutral operations, and we want to reach the innocent victims of conflict of war.

Keep us out of your politics.

Let us help these innocent children who need our help and it is really quite remarkable and we sit down even from the toughest actors.

We usually get the access we need, but when you've got... are really at the initial stages of a war, and the battle lines are changing and moving.

It's very complicated, as you can imagine, at first.

It's complicated no matter what, but we usually work through it.

We know how to do it.

We know how to work through deconfliction.

For example, if you got an active war zone, and you've got competing sides in this situation, Russia and Ukraine, how do we talk to both sides to say, alright, tomorrow between four o'clock and six o'clock, we're going to have 100 trucks come through with food, de-conflict, allow us to come through and drop our food off and distribute it, and we'll be out of there, then you could go back to fighting?

You know, obviously we wish there wasn't, but whether it's airplanes, ships, trains, trucks, or vehicles when we're moving food, usually, we get a great respect, but you got to spend a lot of time on the ground talking to the different actors involved in a conflict...and again, those battle lines change and shift...and we're moving supplies around as you can only imagine it as you speak, but communication is critical.

It is absolutely essential.

They know what you're doing, how you're doing it, where you're doing it, what's your purpose, and please to understand that we're not playing games, we're not favoring one side or the other, and I can give you a story after story on that, in many different places around the world.

Gavin>>...and, Governor, we have five minutes left, and I really appreciate your time.

I know you're very busy, but I'd be kind of remiss if I didn't ask you about climate change, and how that destabilizes all of this, as well.

What's going on?

How are you combating that as best as you can, from your perspective?

David Beasley>> You know, you might debate all day long, what's causing the climate to change...and I'll leave that up to the experts, but I can tell you out on the field where we are, we are seeing more climate shocks than any anytime we've ever seen more flash flooding, more droughts, more cyclones, more hurricanes, you name it out there.

For example, in the #*Sahel, the Sahara is moving down about a kilometer per year.

Last year alone, this is the first time this has ever happened.

We had 30 million people displaced around the world, just because of climate.

We've never seen that before.

So, when we look to the future, if we don't address these concerns, the poorest of the poor, they will either have to migrate or they will die...and so, for example, in the Sahel, this is what I tell our major donors, "Look, the people that I'm reaching "in these areas impacted by climate change, they "don't want you to just give them fish, they want to learn how to fish."

In other words, how do we rehabilitate the land to protect against these droughts or these flash flooding?

We've got solutions for that, we're doing that...and I can give you examples and some anecdotal evidence we've planted and I say we...our beneficiaries, who really take the brunt of climate shocks and climate change.

We've planted over six billion trees, in the years past.

Just in the last five or six years, we have rehabilitated, we, the beneficiaries have rehabilitated... over 3.5 million acres of land that now is growing food.

In other words, when we can come in and rehabilitate the land, put down like an irrigation system...and if we can do a homegrown school meal type program, let me tell you what happens.

Number one, they start taking care of themselves feeding themselves selling into the marketplace, and migration drops off the chart, teen pregnancy and 12, 13 year old marriage rates drops off the chart recruitment by ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, non-state actors, drops off the chart.

It's a lot cheaper to come in and address root problems and give people hope than just come in and give charity.

That's where we like to be.

My goal is to put the World Food Program out of business so that we're no longer needed in these communities, but right now with war and conflict, - why I think we're going to be here for quite a while.

Gavin>>..And one of my last questions, sir.

You guys are the World Food Program, got the 2020 Nobel Peace Prize, and that's a huge honor, and congratulations to your organization for that.

Tell us what have you learned during your tenure, steering this organization, and which I know, your tenure has been extended by a year is my understanding, as well.

David Beasley>> You know, the Nobel Peace Prize, you don't get that phone call every day.

That was quite a phone call.

Never forget it, and quite frankly, the women and the men at the World Food Program that lay their lives on the ground, put it at stake every day to help the poorest of the poor around the world and I never really appreciated how much hunger and poverty and starvation that was in the... world until I took this role ...and I don't have any doubt that the World Food Program is the most strategic effective organization on Earth, and obviously the world's largest humanitarian operation, but to see people around the world, starving, struggling, and I see every, you know, every person is my brother, my sister, because we're all made in the image of God.

We're all equal, and we're all special... and so, we have a moral obligation to reach every single human being that's struggling and you know, when there's $430 trillion dollars worth of wealth on Earth today.

No child should starve to death.

Not one.

Gavin>> Very good, sir.and anything that keeps you kind of keeps you motivated in this situation.

I mean, there's a lot of conflict.

There's a lot of need.

You see it every day ...and you...mentioned this a little bit, but what keeps you going What keeps you hopeful?

David Beasley>> You know, when I'm out there in the field, and that's where I spend one-third of my time is out there in the war zones, the conflict areas and I see battle torn towns, villages that just turn to rubble and I'll see a child come from behind that rubble.

It's like a flower in the desert, and when we don't have enough money, we have to choose which children eat, which children don't eat, which children live, which children die...and I asked someone one time, how would you like that job?

Well, I've got the greatest job on Earth.

I don't like to have to choose what children eat, and don't eat.

So, we need that money...and when I look at that child out there as that could be my little girl, my little boy.

That's what drives me every day not to give up on a single one of them, but for the God's mercy that would be my child, and we have a moral obligation to reach every single child we possibly can.

Gavin>> Very good sir.

That's a former South Carolina governor and World Food Program Executive Director, David Beasley.

Thank you so much, sir.

>> Thank you.

>>To stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week, check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast I host twice a week that you can find on SouthCarolinapublicradio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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