NOW, WE TURN TO U.S. COLLEGE CAMPUSES, WHERE STUDENT ACTIVISTS ARE FACING INCREASED SCRUTINY AS PART OF A CRACKDOWN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAYS IS AIMED AT ELIMINATING ANTI- SEMITISM.

>>> ONE OF THE MOST HIGH- PROFILE CASES IN AN IMMIGRATION JUDGE THAT RULED THAT A COLOMBIAN GRADUATE CAN BE DEPORTED FROM THE U.S. AFTER THE WHITE HOUSE A LEGIT HE BROKE FOREIGN-POLICY LAWS.

THE WORKING LAW ANTI-SEMITISM USED BY MULTIPLE UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE.

NOW WORRIED THAT THE DEFINITION HE CREATED IS BEING USED THE COST ON TO EVERYONE, HE JOINED MICHELLE MARTIN TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS INCLUDES JEWISH STUDENTS.

>> KENNETH STERN, THANK YOU SO AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

>> JUST TO REMIND PEOPLE, YOU ARE THE LEAD DRAFTER OF THE INTERNATIONAL HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE ALLIANCE FOR --OR IHRA, WORKING DEFINITION OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

TO REMIND PEOPLE, WHAT WAS THE IDEA BEHIND DRAFTING THIS DOCUMENT, AND WHAT DOES THIS WORKING DEFINITION SAY?

>> IT WAS ACTUALLY DRAFTED IN 2004.

THE INTERNATIONAL HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE ALLIANCE ADDED IN 2016, BUT DRAFTED AT THE TIME WHEN THERE WAS THE SECOND INTIFADA, AN UPTICK ON ATTACK S ON JEWISH PEOPLE IN EUROPE, AND REPORTED THAT AND HAS ADMITTED THEM , BUT THEY SAID, LOOK, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT DATA POINTS, AND NO COMMENTS OR SCORE SHEETS OF WHAT THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, WE NEED A COMMON DEFINITION, THEN THEY SAID THAT AUNT HAS, DOESN'T THAT THEY VIEW HIS STEREOTYPES ABOUT JEWS, BUT IN A PROBLEM, TOO, THAT BASICALLY SAID, LOOK, WE DO IF JEWS ATTACK A FOREIGN ISRAELI AND THEY SAID, WE HAVE --IF THE PERSON IS BEING ATTACKED , OR THE PERSON HAS THESE STEREOTYPES ABOUT JEWS APPLIES TO ISRAELIS, APPLIES TO THE PERSON ON THE STREETS OF LONDON OR FRANCE, THAT IS ANTI- SEMITISM , NOT IF THEY ARE UPSET AT ISRAELI POLICY.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS SORT OF NUTS, AND WE WORKED WITH THE DIRECTOR OF EU OR THE LEAD DIRECTOR, BUT IT WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO SAY THAT YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES THE DEFINITION OR WOULD CLASSIFY YOU AS AN ANTI-SEMITE, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM OF HOW IT IS BEING USED AS A WAY TO STOP SPEECH, AS OPPOSED TO JUST TAKE THE TEMPERATURE AND GET THE CLARITY ON WHAT IS A CRIME AND WHAT ISN'T.

>> IN FACT, WE SPOKE ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

YOUR CONCERN THEN WITH THAT MAINSTREAM JEWISH GROUPS WERE PUTTING MORE AND MORE PRESSURE ON LAWMAKERS TO ADOPT THE DEFINITION FROM THE IHRA AS WELL AND WORRIED THAT IT WOULD BE SUPPRESSING FREE SPEECH.

WHAT DO YOU THINK NOW?

>> SURE.

PREDATES THE CURRENT MOMENT , STARTED WRITING ABOUT THIS IN 2010, 2011, AND I WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THIS IN 2020.

SO, IT IS NOT NEW , BUT WHAT I SEE IS , YOU KNOW, USING IT AS A WAY TO SUGGEST WHAT FUNDING GOES TO PROGRAMS, WHAT STUDENTS SHOULD COME TO CAMPUS.

WHAT WORRIES ME MORE ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO HAS SPENT DECADES DEALING WITH HATE AND ANTI- SEMITISM IS IT IS GETTING A EASY SOLUTION TO A LOOK AT A PROBLEM.

TAKE THIS DEFINITION , PUT SOMETHING ON ONE SIDE OF A LEDGE OR ANOTHER, AND THAT IS HOW WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT ANTI- SEMITISM .

WHEN WE ARE AT A MOMENT WHERE I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE LEVELS OF THE ANTI- SEMITISM WHEN WE ARE TARGETING PEOPLE THAT ARE SEEN AS NOT PART OF OUR SOCIAL CONTRACT, WHETHER IT IS IMMIGRANTS, OR MUSLIMS, OR TRANSGENDER FOLKS , BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT HOW ANTI- SEMITISM WORKS, THAT IS THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH PEOPLE FEAR SOMEBODY IS AMONG US AND LEADERS CAN MAKE THAT A PROBLEM.

THE OTHER THING THAT TROUBLES ME TOO --THIS IS USED TO CHANGE ADMINISTRATIONS, AND I SEE THE WHOLESALE ATTACK ON HIGHER EDUCATION , AMONG LEGAL PROFESSIONALS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF ALL OF THIS.

I LOOK BACK AT JEWISH HISTORY.

AT TIMES WHERE DEMOCRACY WAS UNDER THREAT, TIMES OF THE McCARTHY ERA, JEWISH SECURITY WAS THE MOST AT RISK , AND I'M WORRIED OF REENTERING ONE OF THOSE PERIODS NOW .

>> YOU KNOW, WE CAN DEBATE ABOUT THE DEGREE TO WHICH SOME OF THESE DEMONSTRATIONS THAT TOOK LACE, MAINLY LAST SPRING, YOU KNOW, HOW APPROPRIATE THEY WERE, BUT SOME PEOPLE WOULD JUST SAY, LOOK, SOME OF THESE DEMONSTRATIONS REALLY WERE ANTI- SOMATIC.

THINGS WERE SAID THAT CREATED JEWISH STUDENTS IN PARTICULAR, JEWISH PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.

SO, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, WELL, WHY WOULDN'T YOU EMPLOY A DEFINITION AS A KIND OF A YARDSTICK FOR BEHAVIOR THAT YOU'D TO BE TOLERATED AND BEHAVIOR THAT IS NOT?

>> THE FUNDAMENTAL DISTINCTION THAT IS BEING LOST HERE, WHICH IS NO STUDENT SHOULD BE HARASSED, INTIMIDATED, BULLIED, THREATENED, LET ALONE ASSAULTED.

STUDENTS ON A CAMPUS WHERE A CAMPUS CAN WORK WELL, STUDENTS HAVE TO EXPECT THEY WILL HEAR THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO DISTURB THEM TO THEIR CORE, AND UNIVERSITIES HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY OF HOW DO WE TEACH OUR THIS MOMENT AND SUPPORT STUDENTS AND SO FORTH, NOT TO SAY THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE HEARD.

A PART OF THE PROBLEM ON THE CAMPUS AT THE MOMENT, FROM THE LEFT, THE IDEAS ABOUT, YOU HAVE TO BE SAFE INTELLECTUALLY.

THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, MICRO AGGRESSIONS, NOBODY SHOULD GO AND HARM SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, INTENTIONALLY, AND SO FORTH, AND BE AWARE OF WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, BUT THE IDEA THAT, SOMEHOW, WE ARE GOING TO MONITOR SPEECH MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS CERTAIN IDEAS THAT ARE OKAY, CERTAIN IDEAS THAT ARE NOT OKAY, GOING TO PRIORITIZE WHAT WE THINK, AND THAT UNDERCUTS A CAMPUS EDUCATION.

ONE OF THE OTHER CHALLENGES HERE, TOO, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE FORGETTING THAT THERE ARE JEWISH STUDENTS ON BOTH SIDES, AND JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE WAS THE GROUP THAT WENT TO THE TRUMP TOWER.

SO, YOU KNOW, INSIDE THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, TOO, ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE JEWISH AND WHETHER YOU HAVE AN ATTITUDE ON ISRAEL.

I AM A ZIONIST.

ISRAEL IS IMPORTANT FOR ME.

FOR A LOT OF YOUNG JEWISH STUDENTS, THE IDEA IS THAT THEY LEAD TO AN ANTI-ZIONIST POSITION.

THE CASE IS REALLY INSTRUCTIVE FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN GERMANY WITH THE DEFINITION USED TO BASICALLY CLASSIFY JEWS WHO WERE OPPOSING THE WAR IN GAZA, CALLING THEM ANTI-SOMATIC.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A PERSON COMMENTED ON IT SAID, ISN'T IT IRONIC THAT GERMANY IN AGAIN DECIDING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE JEWISH, WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE A JEWISH POSITION , AND I DON'T WANT CONGRESS DECIDING THAT HERE EITHER.

I DON'T WANT ADMINISTRATIONS DECIDING THAT.

I WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO GET STUDENTS TO BE ENGAGED ABOUT AVERAGES ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

IT IS A GREAT TOPIC TO TALK ABOUT HOW DO WE DEAL WITH DIFFERENCES.

IF WE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF UNIVERSITIES WE TRY TO SAY, CERTAIN SPEECH MAKES PEOPLE COMFORTABLE, AND WE'RE GOING TO OUTLAW THAT SPEECH, IT IS GOING TO BACKFIRE, AND HARM THE PEOPLE OF HIS TRY TO PROTECT.

>> AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS INVESTIGATED DOZENS OF UNIVERSITIES , INCLUDING COLUMBIA, PENN , AND BROWN FOR USE OF DEI INITIATIVES AND WHAT THEY CLAIM IS THEIR FAILURE TO PROTECT JEWISH STUDENTS, FACULTY, AND STAFF FROM ANTI-SEMITISM ON CAMPUS OR THEIR FAILURE TO ALLEGEDLY CONFRONT ANTI- SEMITISM ON CAMPUS.

VERY CLEAR.

EITHER COMPLY WITH VERY SPECIFIC DIRECTIONS , IN SOME CASES, PUTTING WHOLE DEPARTMENTS UNDER OUR LOSE HUGE AMOUNTS OF FUNDING.

THE END FROZE OVER $1 BILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDING TO CORNELL, NEARLY $800 MILLION FOR NORTHWESTERN, COLUMBIA , $400 MILLION IN FUNDING LOST.

THE IRONY BEING THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDENT RESEARCHERS AND FACULTY ON MANY OF THESE CAMPUSES, SO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT, DO YOU THINK IT IS REALLY ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM, OR WHAT YOU THINK IT IS ABOUT?

>> I THINK IT IS ACTUALLY MUCH LARGER AGENDA THAT WE HAVE SEEN ACTUALLY, FROM BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, A VIEW OF ATTACKING LIBERAL EDUCATION , AND SEEING IT AS THE ENEMY.

J.D.

VANCE TALKED ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK BASICALLY SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD FOLLOW THE UNIVERSITIES --I SEE IT AS A BROADER ATTACK.

ONE OF THE THINGS I TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF THE SENATE COMMITTEE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO ON --ANOTHER BACK IN SEPTEMBER --BACK IN SEPTEMBER, I THINK MOST OF US, EVEN REPUBLICAN -- IF OUR COLLECTION IS CORRECT -- ALL AGREED THAT ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF THE MOMENT IS THE OFFICE OF CIVIL RIGHTS IS UNDERFUNDED, BACKLOGGED, CASE IS ABOUT AND HAS ADMITTED THEM.

WE ALL THOUGHT THAT MORE FUNDING NEEDED TO GO TO THAT TO RESOLVE THOSE CASES, BECAUSE WHEN THEY ARE NOT RESULT, IT TELLS PEOPLE, PEOPLE DON'T CARE, AND SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, OUR EDIBLE WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THIS SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, NOW THEY'RE GOING TO CLAW BACK WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, AND WHAT I REALLY WORRY ABOUT , THE LARGER MOMENT, THAT WE ARE IN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS FROM UNIVERSITIES.

I GET IT, THAT UNIVERSITIES HAVE TOUGH DECISIONS TO MAKE .

THERE ARE A LOT OF PRESSURE AND POLITICAL PRESSURE AND FINANCIAL PRESSURE .

THIS MAY NOT BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAS COME DOWN THAT IS GOING TO THREATEN, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK ABOUT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN.

YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T HANG TOGETHER, WE ARE GOING TO HANG SEPARATELY.

COLUMBIA HAS A 14 TO $15 BILLION ENDOWMENT, HARVARD HAS A BIG ENDOWMENT.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT LARRY SUMMERS, BUT HE IS RIGHT IN SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE HECK IS YOUR ENDOWMENT FOR?

TO FIGHT THINGS LIKE THIS.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ORGANIZED PUSH-BACK, AND TO FOCUS ON HIGHER EDUCATION, WHICH CAN AFFECT JEWISH STUDENTS TOO, AS YOU SAY, AND NOT JUST SAY, OH, WE WILL BE HAPPY THAT WE ARE DEPORTING SOMEBODY OR THREATENING FUNDING FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S SAYS SOMETHING WE DON'T LIKE.

>> TO A VERY HIGH PROFILE CASES WITH GRADUATE STUDENTS IN BOTH CASES WHO WERE ARRESTED SUMMARILY.

THE SURPRISE --MAHMOUD KHALIL, FORMER COLUMBIA STUDENT -- HOLDS A GREEN CARD, LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENT, MARRIED TO AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, WHO IS PREGNANT, AND THEN, THE OTHER CASE, A TOUGH GRADUATE STUDENT TO A RAMADAN BREAK FAST DINNER WITH FRIENDS AND WAS SORT OF DETAINED ON THE STREETS.

SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS NOTHING, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

IT WAS HIGH FILE FOR THE CASE OF KHALIL, HE WAS A PERSON TRYING TO ARTICULATE WHAT THE STUDENTS' CONCERNS WERE.

IN THE CASE OF THE YOUNG WOMAN RUMEY OZTURK, THE TOUGH GRADUATE STUDENT, SEEMED LIKE SHE HAD AUTHORED AN OP-ED CRITICIZING THE WAR IN GAZA FOR ISRAEL.

SEEMS LIKE THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY OTHER EVIDENCE PRESENTED, THE REASON SHE WAS PICKED UP WAS THAT THIS OP-ED --AND THE ARGUMENT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS MADE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T INVITE YOU HERE TO TEAR UP OUR CAMPUSES, WE INVITE YOU TO STUDY.IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO, SAY MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THAT OCCURRED.

>> IN KHALIL'S CASE, HE IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WEAR A MASK, OBVIOUSLY, WAS VERY PUBLIC , BUT THEY CHARGED HIM WITH NO CRIME.

ONE OF THE CONCERNS EVEN MORE, EVEN AS YOU TALK ABOUT THE OP- ED SIGNED BY THE TUFTS STUDENT.

I SAW THE STUDENT JOURNALISM MORNING PEOPLE WERE WRITING THINGS TO GO BACK AND SCRUB OUT IDENTITIES, PEOPLE THAT BROUGHT ABOUT , YOU KNOW, TO TALK ABOUT USING ANONYMOUS SOURCES.

THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ALSO PRODUCE AN ARCHIVE FOR PEOPLE, GO BACK IF THEY SAY THERE IS A DANGER NOW.

COLUMBIA, --THE JOURNALISM SCHOOL, PROFESSORS SAID, PERFECTLY REASONABLY, YOU KNOW, A HORRIBLE THING TO SAY, DON'T WRITE ABOUT GAZA, DON'T WRITE ABOUT UKRAINE, YOU CAN'T BE PROTECTED.

WHAT WORRIES ME ABOUT ALL THIS, TOO, ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE DONE IN TEACHING , IS THAT I HAVE MENTORED STUDENTS , AND HAD TAUGHT STUDENTS WHO ARE FOREIGN STUDENTS WHO COME HERE, AND 1 THE REASONS THAT THEY COME HERE TO STUDY HIS OUR TRADITION FOR FREE SPEECH.

MORE THAN ONE HAVE TOLD ME THAT, I REALLY WANT TO LEARN ABOUT YOUR FREE-SPEECH TRADITION SO I CAN GO BACK TO MY COUNTRY, WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THAT PROTECTION, AND TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THE VALUE OF THE MARKETPLACE THAT IS OPEN FOR IDEAS TO DEBATE ABOUT THEM AND NOT HAVE THE STATE SUPPRESS IT.

BUT WE ARE ACTING MUCH MORE LIKE THOSE COUNTRIES, LIKE RUSSIA , AND IRAN AT THE MOMENT, AND WE ARE ACTING LIKE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THAT I THINK WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE AND ARE HOPING TO GET BACK TO.

>> WHICH IS INTERESTING, SOME OF THE GROUPS THAT HAVE BEEN SORT OF AT THE TIP OF THIS -- AT LEAST THEY CLAIM THEY ARE -- ARE THESE GROUPS LIKE CANARY MISSION AND BENTARA, WHO WOULD COMPILE DOSSIERS ON STUDENTS WHO HAVE PARTICIPATED IN DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST ISRAEL'S CONDUCT IN GAZA, AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR SOME TIME.

THEY ARE NOT ACTING AT THE BEHEST OF THESE GROUPS, BUT THEY SAY THEY ARE.

THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN IDENTIFYING THESE STUDENTS, GIVING THEIR INFORMATION TO THE ADMINISTRATION.

DO YOU THINK THAT THEIR POINT OF VIEW IS BROADLY SUPPORTED, AND IF NOT, WHY DO THEY CONTINUE TO ACT WITH IMPUNITY?

WHAT THEY CLAIM, THAT THEY ARE ACTING AT THE BEHEST OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

>> CANARY MISSION HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN MY BOOK.

IT FIRST STARTED SAYING, OKAY, YOU'RE GOING TO IDENTIFY THESE FOLKS, WE DON'T LIKE THEIR POSITIONS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU SHOULDN'T HIRE THEM WHEN THEIR ANTI-ISRAEL, ANTI-SOMATIC, ANTI- AMERICAN .

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT SO EVERYBODY KNOWS WE SHOULDN'T HIRE THEM .

THAT WAS AWFUL ENOUGH.

NOW THAT THEY ARE BASICALLY TURNING PEOPLE IN, TAKING CREDIT FOR IT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT JEWISH HISTORY, DECIDING, OH, THERE ARE ENEMIES AMONGST US, AND WE ARE GOING TO FIND PEOPLE AND TURN THEM IN.

BOGGLING.

DON'T LIKE HOW PEOPLE SPEAK?

YOU FIND WAYS TO COUNTER THAT SPEECH.

COME UP WITH BETTER ARGUMENTS.

THE REALITY IS THAT CANARY MISSION WAS, YOU KNOW, GOT SOME SIGNIFICANT FUNDING, THEN I THINK THE JEWISH COMMUNITY , FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO, WAS SORT OF EMBARRASSED BY THEM, BUT THERE WAS A RECENT STORY THAT THEY ARE GETTING MORE FUNDING.

THAT LED TO FOLKS SAYING, WE ARE DEFENDING THE JEWISH PEOPLE BY GETTING AN 18-YEAR-OLD OR 20- YEAR-OLD AND HAS A LONG POSITION, AND ABOUT THE WRONG --SAID SOMETHING I FIND DISGUSTING --THAT IS GOING TO TELL JEWISH STUDENTS ON CAMPUS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT ADULTS DON'T THINK THAT THEY CAN ARGUE THEIR CASES.

I THINK THE BETTER THING TO DO IS TO HELP PEOPLE YOU AGREE WITH ALL YOU DID A CASES AND CREATE ENVIRONMENTS FOR HAVING SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSIONS AND DIFFERENCES OF OPINION , AND IMAGINATION.

YOU KNOW, AS WE TALKED ABOUT THE LAST TIME I WAS ON, THE LAST IDEA I HAD WAS THAT IF YOU CAN THINK OF HUMAN BEINGS AS PEOPLE FIRST , HAVE EMOTIONAL EMPATHY, INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY, FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT PERSON HAS A DEEPLY DIFFERENT VISION THAN YOU ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ISRAEL , AND ENGAGE WITH THEM, FIND WAYS, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

THAT IS WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING ON CAMPUSES, NOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEPORT PEOPLE THAT HAVE VIEWS WE DON'T LIKE.

>> IS THE CONCERN HERE THAT THIS REALLY HAS BECOME ABOUT SPEECH AND NOT CONDUCT?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, LISTEN, SOMEBODY SAID, I ASSAULTED SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A DIFFERENT THING.

IF SOMEBODY SAYS, YOU KNOW, I FUND RAISE FOR HEZBOLLAH, HAMAS, EVEN HAVE A BAKE SALE, THAT WAS SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT THEN MONETARY SUPPORT FOR TERRORISM --THE ADMINISTRATION IS CLEAR THIS IS ABOUT SPEECH.

AGAIN, YOUR WON ABOUT WHAT I TESTIFIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I AM SORT OF BLOWN AWAY BY THE IDEA THAT SOMEBODY SAYING SOMETHING THAT I FIND TOTALLY DISAGREEABLE IS SOMEHOW A THREAT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND FOREIGN POLICY.

ARE WE THAT WEAK AS A COUNTRY THAT WE CAN'T TOLERATE KIDS ON CAMPUS SAYING SOMETHING?

AGAIN, IT IS DIFFERENT THAN HARASSING, INTIMIDATING, BULLYING, THREATENING, ALL THOSE THINGS, BUT TO SAY SOMETHING, WHICH IS THE PREMISE OF THEM APPARENTLY, A LOT OF THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE LEGISLATION , YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAVE PROMOTED, TO ME, THAT IS VERY SCARY.

>> FOR I LET YOU GO, HOW ARE YOU DOING?

AS A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN EXPRESSING CONCERNS LIKE THIS FOR SOME TIME NOW, HOW ARE YOU?

>> I AM CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE UNIVERSITY, THIS FULL-SCALE ASSAULT ON HIGHER EDUCATION, THE CLAW- BACKS, THE THREATS, THE BULLYING , AS YOU TALKED ABOUT, THE RECEIVERSHIP .

THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ABOUT MAYBE HAVING A CONSENT DECREE WITH COLUMBIA WITH A JUDGE ENFORCING WHATEVER BECOMES YOU ARE HANDING OVER THE UNIVERSITY POLITICIANS .

THAT DEEPLY WORRIES ME, YOU KNOW , BECAUSE THE HIGHER EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS BEST ABOUT AMERICA.

WE PRODUCE STUDENTS THAT CAN THINK , THAT HAVE SPACES WHERE THEY CAN BE WRONG AND WHERE THEY CAN BE CRITICAL THINKERS.

WHAT WE ARE DOING IS EXACTLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN ON SOME OF THE OTHER SIDE , THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE FROM TIME TO TIME, SAYING, THERE IS ONLY ONE RIGHT WAY OF DOING THIS, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE STATE DOING IT, AND THREATENING SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL PENALTIES , THAT CAN SCARE US ALL.

>> PROFESSOR KENNETH STERN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.