- [Patrick] Tired of the toxic level of polarization in the United States?

Interested in talking with people whose perspective differs from your own in ways that stay constructive?

We invite you to join us for a year focused on creating a culture of conversation rather than division.

(uplifting synth music) The Padnos Sarosik Center for Civil Discourse, Kaufman Interfaith Institute, Hauenstein Center for Presidential Studies, and WGVU Public Media are pleased to partner for "Talking Together: strengthening our communities through conversation," a dialogue initiative aimed at interrupting polarization and investing in the principles of civil discourse and respectful conversation.

The aim is to assist community members engaging in conversation with one another across differences in perspective, identity, and life experiences.

In 1983, the United States Congress passed a bill designating the third Monday in January a federal holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. A little over a decade later in 1994, Congress passed the King Holiday and Service Act.

Since then, university campuses across the country gather for the MLK Junior Day of Service and Solidarity.

At Grand Valley State University, the goals of the event were to educate participants about the Civil Rights Movement, inspire people to engage in their communities by listening, learning, and advocating for social change on campuses and beyond, and to learn from one another through intergenerational conversations as people work side by side.

Our guests today are intergenerational community leaders who participated in the day's events, and they led a panel discussion.

Joining us now, our representative Kristian Grant, your Democrat serving Michigan's 82nd House district; Milinda Ysasi is City of Grand Rapids 2nd Ward commissioner; and Joe Jones is president and CEO of the Hekima Group.

Thank you all for joining us.

How you doin'?

- Doing well, thank you.

- It was a long intro, we got through it.

(panelists chuckling) That was also a long day for you and there's a lot to be learned.

You've all been leaders in this community.

You are oftentimes the torch bearers, you're the educators.

What was that day like working with young people and also honoring Dr. King and his legacy?

- It was awhile back, colleagues, but I think what stuck out to me is that, you know, I went to Grand Valley for undergraduate and MLK Day and all of the events surrounding that were always something that we looked forward to as part of the Latino Student Union because it was an opportunity where we could be in solidarity with our Black brothers and sisters.

And so it was great to be back on campus to see young people, I met some young people, some of us, we took some pictures with folks.

I think we've had some subsequent follow up.

So it was good to see that there is still that connection point and trying to create a space of belonging.

This is American history, it's not just Black history, and I think that is what I really appreciated about the day and Grand Valley, to talk about, you know, for me, like the most important quote that I keep in my head from Dr. King is, "Anybody can be great because anybody can serve."

And that's really stuck with me from a good friend of ours, Maxine Gray, with Blend, we're taking it way back, intergenerational group that we were a part of and that was always our theme to remind ourselves of why are we doing this work.

And I think that's really what guides me in my service to the city.

- So Kristian, what was the day like for you?

- I think I agree.

It was wonderful to see so many people coming out and celebrating, especially in a time when we're just getting past Covid and we're getting back to our regular annual routines to see so many students out and celebrating that day by doing service for their community and for their brothers and sisters.

That was a wonderful day.

But then also to cap that day off with conversation about how do we give back, how do we serve, how do we move forward and what are the values and messages of Dr. King that still apply to today?

So to see people engaged in that full day and that full discourse is really wonderful.

- Yeah, I will tell you that MLK Day never gets old.

I was fortunate, I grew up in Detroit and I graduated from King High School, and one of the benefits of growing up in Detroit is we celebrated Dr. King, heck, throughout my entire lifetime.

And so when I say never gets old, never gets stale, I mean it.

And the opportunity to spend that day with young people I think really serves as a constant reminder for all of us here sitting here about what our what our responsibility is in terms of making sure that we engage the younger generation and really provide that spark or serve as that example for them.

Because I think one of the disconnects is that perhaps young folk in particular, our African-American and Latinx sons and daughters, perhaps there aren't enough opportunities for them to see success that looks like them here in West Michigan.

And so I think that was part of what goes with sitting in that seat on MLK day at Grand Valley is for them to be able to see success that looks like them.

And so yeah, it was great.

Awesome.

- So what were some of those conversations?

Staying on those lines, like, what kind of conversation breaks out when you talk about the inequities and when you talk honestly that there are opportunities that aren't necessarily in your path?

I mean, how do we break through some of these barriers?

What were the conversations that took place?

- I will say it before I start to cough again.

(panelists chuckling) I will say I think the, and I don't remember, I think it was this idea of this intersection of joy and frustration.

A joy to be together, to be celebrating, to remembering, to come together to do work in service of our communities.

But also a frustration that there are a lot of things that have not been resolved, that dream hasn't been fully realized.

And so I think the three of us collectively shared the different things that we're trying to work on on a municipal level, educational level, business level, legislative level.

And so that's what stuck out for me.

I think some of the young people ask questions of like how do you keep going?

I think that was one of the last questions.

It's like, how do you keep going?

How do you keep doing this?

Knowing that maybe there are things that are two steps forward and two steps back?

Certainly, something to highlight in the city and, you know, we're taping this at a later date and we're coming upon the one year date of when Patrick Lyoya was killed here in the city of Grand Rapids.

And I know that my colleague Commissioner Jones and I, you say it best, we entered a fraternity a group that we never wanted to be in on that day.

And so whether it's from a civil rights perspective, ensuring that our public service systems are working for people, to economics to education, there is that, yeah, I'm just gonna say that, that joy and frustration because there are a number of things that are being worked on and the process of systems change takes a lot of time and work, so.

But I think we're reflections of that in our own right.

A lot of us being first when we serve together to individuals of color serving the ward in Grand Rapids that is predominantly white.

And so yeah, I think we get to be that reflection and hopefully others wanna join us in that work.

- So the initiative is "Talking Together."

How do those discussions form to create the change and bringing in this next generation of leaders?

Because you're there with them, you've been living the frustration, they sense the frustration, so the dialogues that need to take place and to prepare young people to enter in leadership positions.

What is the advice that you're giving, what were some of those conversations like on campus that day?

- I think that a lot of times young people wanna know, like when did you decide that you wanted to do these things?

Did you have a lifelong goal?

And sometimes that is true for many leaders but I also think one thing that's important for them to know is that a lot of times many leaders find themselves doing the work in whatever capacity they can at the moment.

Whether it's volunteering at the church, showing up at the school.

My first real volunteer role was in college starting a student organization.

And then at my daughter's elementary school being a parent leader.

Those are the places where I learned all the skills.

I learned how to hear what people needed and how do we navigate the systems.

And you find yourself doing this series of things and you look up and one day you're at the state capitol or you know, so many other things.

But I think that a lot of people want to see this indicator in their life very early on that they will be in this role, that will kind of give them the okay, and the okay is always showing up.

That's your okay.

There were so many things in my life where other people would have written me off.

And that's in all of our lives.

If we take a microscope and look, we've all had things that certain people will say "Well, that disqualifies you from doing greater work."

But really people need to see people in higher positions that they can relate to.

You were not perfect.

You stumbled along the way, you lost a few times, right?

But you got back up and you kept showing up.

And so I think when that young individual was saying how do you keep showing up?

That's a piece of it too.

Knowing that no matter what stage you're at there's always possibility for more and need for you to do more.

But also like us who are in the positions opening our doors and welcoming people in.

And so I think people are always surprised when they come to me with an issue and they're kind of like, "Here's this big issue.

You got it, you take it from here."

And I'm always like, "No, no, come back.

Let's do it together."

Let's work on this together because in my eyes, my role is not saying "I fixed this" or "I solved this" because then you have people depending on you when we should be working together and people are learning to navigate these systems, learning when to say, "This is not right and I know what I'm owed as a taxpayer, as a resident," and they know what route to take for themselves.

- Yeah, you know, when you have an audience like that, there's the opportunity to take full advantage of having this very captive audience for that day.

But I think part of what we tried to accomplish, either individually as well as together as a speaking core was, you know, it's not just about that day, right?

The critical importance of using that day as a time of remembrance, of lifting up certain issues, but, you know, we're talking about the critical need to be very present as, you know, how can I put this?

Being present on as many days as you possibly can, right?

Now, the reality of engaging in leadership is, you know, the most impactful leaders are those who are present.

We live in a society right now in which you don't necessarily have to be present.

You can, because of technology, there is this feeling, heck, because of Covid, you know, you could be present by way of being somewhere virtually.

When you look back at the history of Dr. King or just the civil rights movement, I mean, their presence was just over the top, right?

And we're talking about folks whose names you'll never hear in the history books, right?

They're nameless, they're faceless, but they were there.

And I think what we have before us as individuals who are engaged in leadership is we have the responsibility to help to explain to this next generation that it's more than just a title, it's more than just being in a position where folks are looking to you to get things done.

You know, it really does start with just the consistent presence in community, the consistent presence in and around issues that are pertinent within the community, and how, because of that, quite often what will happen is you will then find your way, perhaps being sometimes pushed, sometimes led to the front to lead.

But real leaders are the ones who are just consistently present.

And so hopefully that was part of the message that they received on that day.

And again, it goes beyond just that third Monday of January.

'Cause I think it's really, you know, depending on who you talk to, some tension lies there, that we make a really big to-do about that day, but are you kidding me?

I mean, when you look at the history of Dr. King, my man was engaged all the time.

In fact, his family suffered, others suffered because of his conscious decision to be present.

And that's also, I think a part of the message that needs to be conveyed to young people is this isn't all just rainbows and flowers.

You know, it's hard.

And there's a price to be paid when you engage in leadership.

- And the value of, you talk about being present, right?

Being in that moment, civic engagement and being next to someone, right?

Moving forward, pulling together in one direction to better your community or communities.

The value of that in a country that's divided right now, when you can rub elbows with people you may not know, you talk about age differences, gender, economic classes, whatever it might be, the differences that you see.

But having those moments, those times, like the day of service, to work with people you don't really know, are those the opportunities for breaking down those barriers and for bridge building and to really get to know people and have a better understanding for who we all are as humans?

- Absolutely.

You know, what comes to mind is a saying that was I think made all the more popular by President Obama, and that is, you know, this understanding that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

And so I think we find ourselves right now in a time in history where it's really easy to find the things which we disagree upon.

And I wanna suggest that there's a lot that many of us disagree upon.

However, it should not in any way stand in the way of us being able to coexist.

You may have your belief system, I have my belief system, that shouldn't stand in the way of us being able to live our lives in a way that is full of opportunities and access to prosperity, right?

Or just access to opportunities.

But we tend to, these days, I think focus so much on that which divides.

And while we're doing that, I would love to see as a society, as a community more and more of recognizing, yeah, again, we're not gonna agree there, however, let's at least respect the personhood, right?

And I think that comes back to the simplicity of, the critical importance of dignity, recognizing this innate, you know, this thing that we have based on the fact that we're human beings.

That we have dignity and that's value, right?

And so how do we build upon that instead of really just building on, "Well, you know what?

You believe what you believe and I just I can't get down with you."

It's like, who wants to live like that, right?

And I think we have an opportunity here in Grand Rapids, I think we have a pretty significant stage to lead in that space because if ever there there was a city or a region that has those attributes at play in terms of division, it's West Michigan.

- So the opportunities are there to really get to know your neighbor and to build out from there, to get past some of the partisan bickering and the divide that we see.

For young people, again, you're the leaders, what advice do you have for them?

I'm gonna, this is a quote from Steven Olikara who's the founder of the Millennial Action Project.

He says that Bobby Kennedy said this, I didn't find it.

(panelists chuckling) But he said, "Young people have the least ties to the past and the greatest stake in the future."

That might be a Bobby Kennedy quote, I don't know.

But there's truth in that, right?

Because you have mature leadership who sees, who has a view and young people have a completely different view.

It's a fresh look to the future.

Those conversations, I mean, you were talking about young people coming to you saying, "Hey, fix this for me."

And you're saying, "No, no, no, you need to be a part of that process."

The value in that and the conversations of young and old people coming together, how do you initiate that?

How do you share ideas to really move the needle in a positive direction?

- I think it's creating the space, just creating space for discourse.

And that goes for generational differences, that goes across party lines.

We have so many ways to define what divides us or what makes us different or creates a line, but we rarely talk about the things that connect us.

And when you spend time with people and you create space to find time together, you'll find the ways that you need each other to succeed no matter how we, you know, slice the pie up and create these different boundaries.

One way that I see that a lot here in Michigan is our east and west divide.

And so something that Dr. King spoke so adamantly about towards the end of his life was economic development and addressing poverty and the reasons for poverty and allowing people to build wealth.

And so for as long as I've been alive, we've had this divide across the state that really separated communities and how do we address these pressing issues?

And during my time in the state legislature I just really started digging up data and being honest with my colleagues on the east side of the state.

We have so much more in common, you know?

In their mind they're like "You guys got it figured out on the west side, you don't have the same issues we have."

And I've seen some of my west side counterparts be like "We're very different, we don't have those problems."

The data says otherwise, people's daily lives say otherwise.

And so being able to convene those conversations and be vulnerable, right?

So no matter what issue we're talking about, I'm just using economic development as an example, but no matter what issue, you have to come together but you have to be vulnerable.

So I had to be willing to say like "I won't talk about your data.

I won't point out Flint or Detroit.

I'll just tell you what's happening in Southeast Grand Rapids."

And them saying like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know that you guys had those issues."

And saying "we're stronger together."

I can go to the capitol and fight all day for Southeast Grand Rapids, and I will, but we are so much stronger if we fight for urban cores across the state together.

We'll take more home for the people that we serve.

And no matter what issue we're talking about or what line we're talking about, you're stronger if you can come together and be vulnerable and then work together.

- You see the same thing happening?

I was gonna say, I feel like I learned so much from my dad.

My dad is a professor at Grand Valley, and the other day I was having a challenge with a work environment and just seeing different motivators, there's just all these needs that we need to think about in the work environment, right?

Flexibility, healthcare, going back to school.

How do you balance all these things while, as a small organization, also getting your work done?

And so I called my dad, who teaches undergraduate and graduate programs at Grand Valley, and I'm like, "What am I missing?

What am I not recognizing?"

Because, you know, I have to remember at 43, it feels like not that long ago that I was at 25, but so much has changed.

And actually he at 66, sorry dad, he'd probably be okay with it, although people think he's my brother sometimes, and he'll say, "You have to remember, they're dealing with all this other uncertainty that you didn't have."

Like, there were things going on, but the access to information, I think just from an environmental perspective alone, you know, I don't have young kids, but I have nieces and nephews and I think what is life gonna be like when they're my age?

What is the environment that we're leaving for them?

What is all of this access to information doing to all of us?

It certainly, I think, has created more anxiety among individuals.

And so recognizing that it's not the stereotypical, "You know, it was tougher, and I just got it together and I just made it happen."

No, there are individuals who are really hurting, so how can we help and connect that and not dismiss how they're feeling and then try to find that common path?

So I guess it was a intergenerational loop where he helped me understand how I could be a better leader by understanding those generational differences by using tools that he does in the classroom.

And then, you know, I think, lastly, at City Hall, we certainly have had a lot of divisiveness, people upset and frustrated.

And you know, one, I'm all for people having that access to the First Amendment, and two, people are hurting.

And I think when we would sit up there a lot of times and to hear a lot of things that don't feel good, but also know that in a lot of those statements, there was also a lot of truth in what was being said, just as Representative Grant said about those data points, we know those things to be true.

And so it's just that urgency to wanna continue that work and to make sure we're not forgetting how we got to these spots.

- Do you see young people, we have about two minutes here before we wrap up, being out on campus and working with young people, do they have a different vision for the future?

Do they see what's happening in this country right now and saying, "This is not what we want it to look like."

Do they have the power and the force and the wherewithal to really create change and to shift this country in a new direction where there is more unity?

- I believe what they have that perhaps we didn't have or don't have, they have it to a greater degree, and that is this welcoming of this spirit of being more welcome and tolerant and open to others unlike themselves.

And that is a very rich attribute, and I think it leads to another significant attribute or quality, and that is empathy.

And I think that they are operating in a space and place where they just, they have a greater sense of compassion.

And I know that, you know, sometimes we don't see that based on certain media outlets we're perhaps led to believe that all of our young people are losing their minds or just, you know, going off the rails.

No, I see a generation that generally cares, that wants to engage, that wants to lean in, but at the end of the day, they still need leadership.

They need to have some individuals who are coming alongside them.

And I think that's where the real opportunity is.

- So we have hope.

Representative Kristian Grant, thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- Milinda Ysasi, thank you, and of course Joe Jones, we appreciate y'all for being here.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- And thank you for joining us, we'll see you again soon.

(uplifting synth music)