A production of South Carolina ETV.

♪ ♪ Charles Bierbauer> Charleston, its harbor and port have been battle scenes before in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.

Now the worry is not cannonballs, but dirty bombs or a terrorist attack.

Ryan Culnon> We go out on patrol and look for anything suspicious any activity, any boats up near these, container ships that might, look suspicious in harming in harming the ships.

Charles> The nation's fourth busiest container port has seen an increase in activity this year, partly military shipments to support the war in Iraq Post-9/11 security has also increased, including requiring 96 hours notice of arrival for ships headed to Charleston.

Gary Merrick> They'll take a look at the vessel.

Take a look at the types of cargo that the vessel has on board, the crew on that vessel, run them through a couple of different databases and see if there's anybody on there, that, that's of interest to us.

Charles> While some federal Homeland Security funds have been earmarked for the Port of Charleston, Commander Merrick says it's not a lot and not enough Maritime officials say airports have gotten more attention than seaports.

The 9/11 attacks were launched from four hijacked commercial flights.

Airport baggage screeners, now federal employees are highly visible.

Passengers have become accustomed to shedding their shoes and opening their laptops.

So are we any more secure than we were, two years after the 9/11 attacks, or are we just more alert?

Welcome to "Stateline".

I'm Charles Bierbauer.

We'll address the status in South Carolina and Homeland Security with Robert Stewart, chief of the State Law Enforcement Division and South Carolina's Homeland Security director, with Larry Holcombe, deputy director of the Greenville Spartanburg International Airport, and with Lindy Rinaldi, who is chief of Port Police for the South Carolina Ports Authority.

Thank you, and welcome to all of you for being here.

Chief or Director Stewart, two years after the attack on 9/11, Is this a safe place, relatively?

Dir.

Stewart> Relatively, Yes.

The chances of a terrorist event here in South Carolina are a very low probability.

Of course, it would be a high consequence if it did occur.

But we're working on a number of fronts.

We're working to prevent an attack, detect one, if one were to be in progress in the planning stage, to prepare for a response and to respond.

If we can do a good enough job of in the prevention arena and detection, then we wouldn't have an event to respond to.

So there's a lot going on in that regard.

Charles> Give us some of the specifics of what you've done in the last two years that give you that degree of confidence that were relatively safe.

Dir.

Stewart> In the prevention area, we have the Joint Terrorism Task Force that's now up and fully running in South Carolina.

There's one is in each state.

It's staffed full time by FBI and SLED agents with a point of contact in each local police agency.

They gather intelligence.

They work leads that come in from anywhere in the country or Washington.

that need to be worked.

And then that is all, comes together in an office here in Columbia and, and talks back and forth with, with Washington.

We have the now the South Carolina Counter-Terrorism Coordinating Council is in place and working.

That's made up.

It's discipline driven, made up of all the disciplines involved in the counter-terrorism mission from law enforcement, fire, rescue, public health.

I could go on and on, federal, state and local representatives.

Charles> This is a kind of coordination that you did not have two years ago?

Dir.

Stewart> Yes, so, this council was just created, shortly after January of this year when Governor Sanford, decided to make SLED responsible by executive order for the prevention against preparation for in response to, terrorist activity that has since been placed into law and been codified and he signed it into law on July the 31st, though we also have councils now in each of the four regions of the state, working very closely on the local and regional level.

And those councils have basic membership, but also membership tailored to the peculiarities in that region, such as the Port in Charleston, nuclear power plants, military bases, things of that nature.

And these councils are having a lot to say in how moneys will be spent, what the strategy should be within the state, mutual aid agreements, the whole holistic approach to counter-terrorism.

Charles> On, on a national scale, we remain at a threat level coded as yellow or the third of the five steps that the, the federal government has, has set up, which is the same point we were at, at the start, pretty much of the, of the war.

In March, you joined us here, and you said that you felt there was a strong possibility that the United States could be attacked again, and yet that's not happened.

Is there something that's happened that has precluded that, prevented that, intercepted threats?

Dir.

Stewart> Well, you have seen attacks around the world.

Fortunately, we have not had one here in the United States.

But there's a lot of work and you don't know necessarily what has been prevented, although there are some things I think you can point to that have been prevented, certain arrests in the country, certain activities that have been investigated.

But, you never know what the increased security has deterred from happening in the United States, as well.

It's important that we don't let our guard down because this is very, very serious business.

You can prevent nine operations.

And if the 10th one occurs, it could be a terrible tragedy.

So we cannot let our guard down.

And, and the things that we put in place today and the actions we take it could very well affect the way of life for future generations.

So we can't take it lightly.

Charles> Have there been any specific, credible threats at any possible target in South Carolina?

Dir.

Stewart> There have been numerous things that we have checked out, but they've not materialized to be an actual threat.

Charles> And you still think that, of all the potential targets here, the Port of Charleston is the most vulnerable?

Dir.

Stewart> No question.

The port is the most vulnerable, vulnerable the most we're concerned about, there has a good bit of money come down now, about $13 million or so for security in the port.

I'm sure Chief Rinaldi will speak of Operation Seahawk and the many things going on down there, but there's still a long ways to go.

Charles> Well, that's exactly where we wanted to go.

And I want to ask Chief Rinaldi, thank you for joining us down port side actually.

Tell us about Project Seahawk and what that has, has been doing.

Chief Lindy Rinaldi> Oh, that Project Seahawk, we're a part of, Sean Cantrell Assistant U.S.

Attorney, is spearheading that, and it's a multi-jurisdictional effort bringing all law enforcement together, federal, state, and local to help prevent and to tear and respond to, terrorist acts and, and secure Charleston, the port, the whole port, not just South Carolina state ports authority, but the harbors and private terminals and everything.

Charles> So this is again, a coordination matter.

That's what this project is largely about?

Chief Rinaldi> Absolutely.

It's a coordination effort like none I've ever seen.

It's a long time ago we, we worked in a vacuum.

But these folks are, are being, put together in the same room, sharing information.

Databases are, federal, state and local databases aren't connected.

So bringing them all together under one roof and sharing information will expedite a lot of intelligence sharing and gathering and coordination.

Charles> And is there evidence that it's working?

Have you, can you point to specific things that say, this is something we've accomplished or this is something that we're now doing that we could not do before?

Chief Rinaldi> Well, absolutely.

I think the coordination amongst the various levels of agencies and entities that are participating in this is amazing.

And, to be able to share the intelligence as quickly and rapidly as it's happening.

Well, it, it's just at the forefront of what needs to happen throughout the rest of the nation, And it's really just beginning and finding a location and getting all the equipment and setting up.

But this, this group is off and running, even without having, everything they need.

Charles> What do you need that you don't have?

Chief Rinaldi> Oh, there's a lot of equipment.

And here again, this is the Assistant U.S.

Attorney's, spearheading this program.

And we're, we're just one of the entities that are participating in it.

And I understand there's a lot of different equipment that, that needs to come into this area for screening purposes and various equipment for interoperability.

And, and, and manpower and boats and all kinds of things, Charles> Manpower and money, probably the two things you need the most.

We mentioned this 96 hour notice that, ships are supposed to provide to the port down there.

Can you explain how that works and what authority you have if, if you have a suspect ship or something that, that makes you wary.

Chief Rinaldi> That actually, the notice of arrival is for the Coast Guard, and that information, of course, is shared or the intelligence is shared with the Project Seahawk.

So everything that, 96 hours prior to a vessel arriving, there's the cargo information, crew information, if anything, bubbles up to the surface, it's handled before a vessel would be even allowed to enter the harbor.

They'll meet them offshore.

Charles> And one of the, one of the other things that maybe this is a question, more for you, Mr.

Stewart, is, is that, we hear that, Osama bin Laden purportedly controls a number of ships either owns them or, or has access to them.

How would you know that?

How would you know if these, one of these ships had some connection to Osama bin Laden?

Dir.

Stewart> Well, the federal government is doing a lot of work around the world, as you know, monitoring what goes on in other ports.

And, of course, you got the Central Intelligence Agency that gathers a lot of information that, of course, we can't discuss one way or another, but, there's a lot of ways you get information, technical, technology, and you're going to see technology around the port, that's going to be something out of the space age that's being added on there.

Through the grant monies and Project Seahawk.

And then there's of course human intelligence, which is some of the best you can get.

You can see through satellites where ships are going around the world, naturally.

And then if you've got, people in the right places to tell you things, and that's as general law enforcement, any type law enforcement, that's the way you get your information.

But we're also putting some things in and around the port.

There's $5 million for a fixed, radiological detection system.

So if something did happen to get in there and was coming out in a vehicle that should detect it on the roadways around the port, there's going to be a command- Charles> That is after, it's already.

Dir.

Stewart> That's correct.

Charles>-in the port and in the state.

Dir.

Stewart> And but so you've got to have, procedures at every stage in case it does get through, so that you can try to catch it before it gets out into the, the population.

But there's going to be a high tech command center down there with merging computer systems together, tracking vessels.

There's going to be devices that show you what's going on around the port and approaching the port.

It's going to be really something to see.

Charles> Chief Rinaldi, what are the kinds of things that concern you the most?

I would suspect that we've been looking at some of those pictures of all those containers, something in the nature of 1.6 million containers that pass through the port, if I've got the numbers right.

How many of them can you actually check?

Chief Rinaldi> Well, here again, that's, the Port Authority police are... we handle the physical security and access control for the facilities, and then we work with Customs and Coast Guard and all the other entities when necessary for cargo operations.

So, Customs is really doing a wonderful job with, the intelligence gathering on the containers and inspecting the right container.

I know there's a lot said on it.

It's only 2%, but, but there's a lot of intelligence and data sharing and gathering on the right 2% for them to look at.

We certainly need to look at more and more.

We're moving in that direction.

Charles> And so you would be increasing the number of containers that are inspected.

Is that the objective?

Chief Rinaldi> Absolutely.

Charles> To what level?

Chief Rinaldi> I, I would have to refer you to Customs for that.

I know there's more equipment coming and I don't think there's a level to just stop at.

You keep going as much as you can.

Charles> And Mr.

Stewart, the money flow, is it coming at the pace that one you either expected or two you need?

Dir.

Stewart> Well, the money flow has really begun now.

Everybody was wondering where, show me the money, and, now in the last several months, there's somewhere in the neighborhood of $43 million coming to South Carolina.

We did get extra money because of the supplemental that went through Congress due to the war effort.

South Carolina picked up about $20 million out of that, plus another 3 million for cost associated with being at the higher levels, during the war, and when we may have to go to that in the future.

Charles> Is that all going to security provision?

Dir.

Stewart> It goes for equipment, planning, training, things of this nature.

There's very little in there for any manpower.

But the what we've got to do now is create with some of this money a new strategy.

The strategy that's in place in the States, has been in effect since 1999, which predates 9/11.

So we've just contracted with a company to come in and assist us.

And by December the 31st, we have to have a new strategy in Washington approved before we can spend the 04' monies.

But we just got approval last week to begin spending all of this money.

We had to do, had to plan how it would be spent, send that plan to Washington, get approval.

It's now been approved.

And we got the green light for local agencies, which get 80% of this money to begin spending it.

Charles> Senator Hollings, who was instrumental and of course, helping get the Project Seahawk money into Charleston, has been critical about the amount of attention paid to ports.

And in fact, Governor Sanford, I believe, has now, raised some concerns and and a desire to divert more money to the ports, rather than to some of the, the rural counties around the state.

Do you agree with that?

<Yes.> and that happening?

Dir.

Stewart> And what we have to do is, see, there's a basic level of equipment and preparation that needs to be done at the local jurisdiction, but local jurisdictions must have access to everything in a quick fashion, but they don't need and can't afford to have everything.

Then on a regional level, we've structured the equipment and resources that would roll into any local jurisdiction to help then on a state level, and the federal level.

So it's a tiered system that now we sent money to each county in the state, to do is 50,000, plus sum per capita, for a total of 5 million to local, to each county.

And so now what you'll see as us go back and focusing more on the, the vulnerabilities that really need the extra attention.

Charles> Mr.

Holcombe, we haven't forgotten you.

We haven't neglected you in Spartanburg.

But, airports by, by many assessments have been a first priority.

Have you gotten what you need At the Greenville, Spartanburg airport and at airports in general?

Larry Holcombe> Yes, I think so.

We've been very fortunate to receive, funding both from the federal government and the Transportation Security Administration.

Charles> And, how well, those of us who pass through airports with any regularity notice the transition, of course, as, as the, the, inspectors were brought into the federal system, but, how well are they trained now?

What's the distinction that you would make, between the kinds of inspectors that your baggage inspectors you had at airports two years ago and what you've got now?

Larry> Well, the training program is much more intense now, than it was two years ago.

You can see the difference in the quality of the people that we have now.

They have a, training program that's very structured and very organized.

So I feel very confident that the training program is adequate and certainly better than it was two years ago.

Charles> As, as one passes through these, portals, we see nail files being plucked out of, out of bags.

I will confess that I inadvertently left my, Swiss Army knife in my bag at one point.

Forgot it was there, people taking off shoes.

Is that really critical?

Larry> Yes it is.

You know, any device that can be used as an instrument is certainly one to, we want to keep those off aircraft.

And you'd be surprised the items that we do confiscate.

In the last two years, we've, confiscated over 10,000 prohibited items.

25, 125 of those were either guns or other dangerous items that could be used as a weapon.

Charles> Do you fly much yourself?

Do you do you feel confident in airports these days?

Larry> Yes I do.

I feel very confident that, of course, the possibility is always there that something could slip through.

But, we're much better prepared today than we were previously.

Charles> Oh.

I want to ask you all the same question, in essence.

And that is whether today, two years after the attacks of 9/11, whether the public's relaxed?

Do you feel that way?

And Mr.

Holcombe?

Larry> Yes.

We are beginning to see that somewhat, shortly after September of 2001, most passengers were very appreciative.

They, they didn't complain at all, but were beginning to see a little, little more complaints now.

I think some of the folks are, don't realize the necessity of what we're doing.

But in general, the reaction has been very positive and we receive very few complaints, but they are increasing slightly.

Charles> Chief Rinaldi?

Chief Rinaldi> Actually, in this environment, the complaints were all in the beginning because people had to learn, they had to change the way we did access control.

And that was the biggest impact on folks, showing I.D.

having to have I.D.s and, and with the cruise ship screening, 100% of, all the packages, bags and ship stores.

So we, feel pretty comfortable that folks have gone through that training process.

And, and it's they're well trained when they approach for, access, they're ready with their I.D.s and, and we don't get very many complaints.

Charles> The general public, as well as what you're, what you're referring to.

And people on cruise ships and everything that's associated with that.

Chief Rinaldi> I think they appreciate the increase in security.

And they understand.

They've just come from an airport, a lot of them have.

And what they've gone through there and it's and we do the same thing for cruise ships.

So people, people are getting used to the added security.

Charles> Mr.

Stewart?

Dir.

Stewart> I think people are more relaxed, but at the same time, they are more vigilant than they were prior to 9/11.

We still get a lot of information passed to us by the public that we take very seriously and immediately check out, and I would encourage the public to continue to do that because that one little suspicious thing that may be seen that we could check out, may prevent an event in another tragedy in New York or Washington or somewhere else.

So people are relaxed, but they're still reporting information to us.

And that's very important.

Charles> Mr.

Holcombe, I want to get back to you on one other thing in, in the past, I guess year or so, there's been a lot of discussion about arming pilots and, training them and giving them, in essence, weapons in the cockpit.

Is that a, is that an issue?

And are there, in fact, pilots flying through your airport who are now armed?

Larry> Yes.

There is a federal program that authorizes pilots to be armed in the cockpit.

The process is, is off to a slow start.

That's one of the complaints that we're receiving from the pilots that the program is not advancing as fast as they would like for it to be.

But it is a process.

It's in place.

And I think eventually, most of the pilots will have a, weapon in the cockpit.

Charles> And is that something that, is all right with you from an administrative point in an airport?

Is somebody else carrying guns?

Larry> Well, of course, you hate to see any type of weapon on board an aircraft because you don't know who could possibly get ahold of that.

But, apparently it's, a good procedure that they, the pilots endorse, and so does the Transportation Security Administration.

It's not an issue getting, weapons through the airport, if you're authorized, and you have the proper permitting.

Of course, we have to inspect every person that has a weapon that have been in a sterile area to make sure that they are, have a valid, certificate for that weapon.

Charles> What would be the one thing Mr.

Holcombe, that you could use that you don't have now?

Larry> Well, of course, we're in the same boat as everyone else.

Additional money would certainly help fund some of the requirements that, that the Transportation Security Administration has placed on us and some additional equipment also.

Charles> Mr.

Stewart, in the wake of 9/11, there were, of course, the Anthrax scares.

None that have been associated with, with al Qaeda or any other distinct group.

In fact, to my knowledge, I don't think any of them have ever been completely tracked down.

Are we still, focusing, and are we focusing adequately on questions about bioterrorism?

Dir.

Stewart> Yes.

The D.H.E.C in South Carolina is working hard in that arena.

They are part of the Counter- Terrorism Coordinating Council.

I know they received, $13 million on one occasion.

They're about to receive another $20 million just for public health issues to work with hospitals or to see that hospitals are prepared for an event and, more importantly, can recognize something, if you have a chemical attack, you know it right away.

If you have a biological attack, it could be days before you know it and people start showing up with flu like symptoms at hospitals.

Hospitals have to be trained and there has to be a surveillance system across the state and across the country to recognize that and know to take the appropriate action.

Charles> One of the other things I wanted to ask you about was communication between agencies.

We met was with some other, agency folks here, a few weeks ago, talked about their concerns in the area of cyber terrorism.

And you had mentioned that, as has everyone, that there's more coordination between agencies.

But out in the field at, at the, at the at the level where you might have action, are agencies now able to talk to each other, the FBI, SLED and everything else that's out there?

Dir.

Stewart> We're making progress in that regard.

We still have a ways to go.

It's a very expensive, problem to remedy, but it's being addressed, phased in across the state.

The Palmetto 800 megahertz system is now expanded.

We've taken about a half $1 million of the monies that are coming down, so that all of those repeaters across the street can, across the state can have a conventional side in case the system failed, the individual repeaters could still work.

We're phasing in, at least portable radios, if not mobile radios across the state.

We made a lot of progress in that regard.

And now we're seeing that every agency has some portable units so they could talk, with, with all of the law enforcement and possibly the fire service, that's, that's transitioning to 800, as well.

We have equipment that, that we're about to order where if an event occurs, we can put this trailer in and it will, very high tech.

And it will allow all different radio bands to come together and talk and segregate them into proper channels.

And then that, that so that would handle events from an immediate standpoint as we continue to work across the state with the 800 system.

Charles> So, it's one thing to, to coordinate in the office, but you've got to be able to communicate in the field.

Dir.

Stewart> It's very important.

If you have somebody out there that you can't talk to, they aren't any use to you.

Charles> We've got about 30 seconds left.

Relationship with the, the Homeland Security, Secretary Ridge, what's happening there?

Dir.

Stewart> We have very close relationship.

We have regular, we probably talked to somebody in their office up there every day.

We have conference calls on a regular basis, and we actually go up there several times a year.

Charles> All right, Director Stewart from the SLED, Mr.

Holcombe up at, Greenville/Spartanburg airport and Chief Rinaldi in the Port of Charleston, thank you very much for bringing us up to date on, what you are doing with regard to security two years after 9/11.

And thank you for joining us.

To find out about next week's "Stateline" topic and guests, visit our website, at www.scetv.org/Stateline and register for our online newsletter.

For "Stateline", I'm Charles Bierbauer.

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