- [Narrator] A production of the South Carolina Educational Television Network.

The following program is made possible in part by grants from SCE&G, Duke Power Company, and Carolina Power & Light.

(upbeat dynamic music) (gavel banging) - Welcome to this segment of "Capitol View."

I'm Tom Fowler.

Our guest is Senator Kay Patterson, Democrat from District 19 in Richland County.

He's a retired educator, a graduate of Allen University with a master's from South Carolina State College, a veteran of the Marine Corps.

He served in the House from 1975 to '85, and has served in the Senate since 1985.

He serves on the judiciary, education, labor commerce and industry, medical affairs, and rules committees.

Welcome back to "Capitol View."

- Thank you very much.

Nice to be here.

- Give us, if you would, briefly, what you feel the General Assembly has accomplished so far this year and not accomplished.

- Well, one of the main things that I'm rather proud of is the Fair Housing Bill we passed and I think the governor's in the process of signing it if he has not already signed it.

I think that's a step forward for South Carolina because the governor said in his oral address that racism will not be tolerated in South Carolina, and I want to commend him for making such a bold statement.

Other than that, we have worked on some things, now we are working on the budget bill, which is always the biggest item that we must encounter.

And we've been working on the election of judges.

We just did several of them the other day, and we elected Representative Tee Ferguson out of Spartanburg as a Circuit Court Judge for that judicial district which will give us two Black Circuit Court judges out of around 33 judges.

And personally, I want to see us elect more Black Circuit Court judges.

- That process of fair representation has, that debate has begun already looking ahead to next year, and the reapportionment that will happen across the nation and throughout South Carolina.

And that's sure to be, other than the budget, the top issue next year.

Give us an overview of that process, and what you see as the priorities in it.

- Well, the number one priority of the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus, of which I'm the chairman, our goal is to carve out a district wherein we can elect a Black representative to go to Congress.

As you know, we have six representatives and two senators from South Carolina.

All six of the representatives are white and no Black.

We haven't had a Black representative in South Carolina since reconstruction days.

And it's time for us to have one.

You know, we make up 1/3 of the population of South Carolina and 1/3 of six will give you two.

It's impossible to cut two districts, but you can very easily cut one.

And I can't understand how is that some of our present congressional delegation members are saying that they like it the way it is now, and they want it to stay that way.

Now I can understand the part of it because I know that if you have six and one gonna be Black, that mean one white must give up, and that's the way the cookie crumbles and I can understand that.

But for people to argue against having a Black representative in this day and age is just beyond my imagination.

- What will that process be?

I mean, the discussion has begun now, the public debate about this, the issue being discussed.

Where does it go from here?

- Well, the General Assembly of South Carolina will make that decision.

It's our responsibility to reapportion the state for the congressional delegation and also for the South Carolina General Assembly.

And we in the South Carolina General Assembly will actually sit down and draw up all house districts.

I'm talking about South Carolina house.

We will redraw all South Carolina senate districts.

All 46 of them.

We will redraw all six congressional districts.

The South Carolina General Assembly makes that decision.

Of course it must be approved by the US Justice Department, and we've already started, when I say we, the South Carolina Black Caucus already started the process of sitting down with the state NAACP.

Dr. Bill Gibson is our president, and he also is the chairman, national chairman, of NAACP.

And we want to work together and come up with a plan that all of us, when I say us, I mean Black people, can buy into and see that Black people are represented in South Carolina.

Then some people will criticize me for bringing it up, saying that all I'm interested in are Black issues and everything Black, white, and they say, "He's a racist," and all that.

But what I can't understand is, from on the congressional level, they have all the seats from South Carolina.

All six house members, both senators.

We have nothing.

And then we stepped forward and asked for something.

They point the finger at me and say I'm the racist.

Well, here me with zero, nothing.

They got 'em all, but I'm the racist, and they're good, fine blue-blooded American citizens.

Now I ain't buying that Tom.

I want my share and I want it now.

- Representation on the Joint Committee, do you feel that reapportion will come down to a committee of house members and senators sitting together and doing a lot of the detail work on a compromise agreement?

Where, how do you think all that will come, and who should make up that committee?

- Oh, that, oh that by law that's your Judiciary Committee in the House and your Judiciary Committee in the Senate.

Now I'm on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate.

That's where it starts.

And then when the Judiciary Committee gets through with it, it is presented to, you know, both bodies, and that's when the show hits the road, you know.

So the mechanism is there for that already and we just have to work through that mechanism.

- You mentioned the Black Caucuses discussions on this, and what the representatives in Congress have said about their feelings on it.

- Yeah.

- What about other members of the House and Senate, the white colleagues who would have to make up the support for this concept?

- I have been receiving favorable comments about it.

One of the most favorable came from a US congressman, Arthur Ravenel, a friend of mine.

I served in the Senate with Arthur.

And he, matter of fact, we sat right next to each other, and Congressman Ravenel said, "It's time that Blacks should be represented from South Carolina and in Congress."

And Arthur is is Republican as you know.

And that's why it seems strange to me that a Republican could step forward and make a statement like this.

And then my Democratic colleagues on the delegation talk about, "We like it the way it is and we don't change."

You know, of course my congressman, Floyd Spence, did not, who's a Republican, did not join Ravenel from Charleston.

Floyd seems to be siding with the Democrats about, "We like it the way it is."

but my thing is, I don't, I don't care about, what they, "Like the way it is."

I wasn't elected to, you know, to satisfy them, to try and get what they like, you know, covering themselves.

You know, it's one of 'em gonna give up something, you know?

And then we are gonna have us a Black congressman, you know, and I don't care which one it is.

One of them, one of 'em gonna go.

- [Tom] So you see that as an essential part of any discussions on reapportioning anything?

- About who gonna give up something?

- About whether there is a Black electable, Black district in the congressional delegation.

Is that linked to House reapportionment and Senate reapportionment?

- No, it is, no, it is strictly a separate issue.

- [Tom] Separate.

- It's separate.

We gotta do the House.

We gotta do the Senate, and then we gotta do congressional district.

And they are separate issues.

- Under the different, there have been different possible maps drawn out for that.

What is the likeliest combination?

- The likeliest is taking Richland County and Allendale, Bamberg, Orangeburg, Calhoun.

Probably Clarendon, Williamsburg in that area.

Sumter probably, you know.

It, the kind of midlands area and drawing up a district with which must be at least in the 60 percentile for you to elect a Black person.

You start out 50 and 51 that you just whistling Dixie.

You ain't doing nothing but trying to fool somebody.

In order for a Black person to get elected, you gotta have in the 60 percentile Black voter registration.

- So under that, that would pull from what, three or four congressional districts to make the one district?

- Yeah.

- [Tom] Pull from about that many.

- Yeah, yeah.

And, of course I don't (coughing) I don't see how we could put Lexington County in it, because just about everybody live in Lexington County happen to be white people then, you know, so that'll defeat the purpose of getting a Black district.

So look like, that's why I couldn't understand Floyd making a statement he did.

He's gonna be safe, more than likely.

The ones that probably will be bumped would either be Tallon or Spratt out of Rock Hill or Tallon out of Florence.

Those two will probably bump together, but Floyd will be safe from the way I'm looking at it.

- When you think about in the House, in the Senate, districts in this state, will reapportionment likely result in increased Black representation in both bodies next year?

(Kay laughing) What will happen with that?

- (laughing) No, I'm laughing because we already have Black senatorial districts represented by white senators.

John, my good friend John Land in Clarendon County comes out of a Black district.

My good friend Yancey McGill out of Kingstree, comes out of a Black district.

We have Black senatorial districts represented by white our senators.

We have many Black house seats represented by white representatives.

And personally, I have no problem with that.

That's another irony in our history, and irony in printed media coverage.

They can always label Black folks as being racist if you bring up things.

But we Black folks have voted for white folks all our lives with, at ease.

Today, we Black folks vote for white folks night and day, at ease, no problem.

But now you, let me get up and ask some white folks, you know, in a district or any district that's the majority white.

You don't know any district in South Carolina with a majority white who elected to elect a Black person, and send 'em to the House of the Senate.

Mm-mm.

By and large white folks do not vote for us.

But we, I'll vote for (indistinct) all day, all day long.

And many other of my white friends, no problem.

- We're about out of time.

Let's talk just a little bit about District 19, your district in Richland County.

- District 19 is a district in the 58 percentile and they're 60 percentile Black.

It was represented by former Senator I. DeQuincey, I. DeQuincey Newman.

Due to poor health, he resigned from the Senate and I was elected to replace, you know, in that particular district.

It comes down in, it starts out in Greenview where I live, which is out at I20 and off I Road, and it comes down as far as the belt line and taking in CH Johnson, that area.

Then it goes up to Blythewood and the, or the top of the county.

That's my- - [Tom] District 19.

- District 19.

- Senator Kay Patterson, thank you for being with us.

- Thank you.

I've enjoyed being here.

- [Narrator] The preceding program was made possible in part by grants from SCE&G, Duke Power Company, and Carolina Power & Light.

(upbeat dynamic music)