♪ Gavin Jackson> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina I'm Gavin Jackson.

This week we explore the Savannah River National Lab at the Savannah River site in the greater Aiken area.

There are 17 U.S.

Department of Energy labs across the United States that conduct scientific and technological research.

Savannah River National Lab provides practical, cost effective solutions to environmental, nuclear security, nuclear materials, and energy manufacturing challenges.

The lab is led by Dr.

Johnny Green, who took over the reins in January 2025.

And we sit down to talk with him about his priorities and more.

But first, we look at the newly opened Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative on the campus of the University of South Carolina Aiken.

It's a partnership which expands the lab's footprint beyond S.R.S.

and will help drive collaboration between higher education and private industry to develop new manufacturing technologies.

The ribbon cutting for the facility was in August 2025, and in attendance was Energy Secretary Chris Wright, Senator Lindsey Graham and other dignitaries, including Dr.

Green, who we'll talk with after this short segment from that event.

(applause) Chris Wright> We would not have had the arsenal we had.

We wouldn't have had the peace and security we had, if not the critical work done at the facilities there today.

Of those facilities as we modernize our nuclear arsenal right now, that is an absolute top priority of this administration are again central to that effort, that national security effort.

It's also a clean up site as we heard about.

That sounds like, that sounds like a facility that had its day and now its day has passed, but that's not at all the case.

In fact, I think the work at this Savannah River facility in the National lab, more critical in the next ten years, likely than ever before, both modernizing our nuclear arsenal and leading the way in our new energy future.

Nuclear energy is the leading source of electricity in South Carolina.

South Carolina has been a pioneer and a leader in nuclear, since we've had a nuclear age.

And we're going into a renaissance of nuclear energy.

And that renaissance is going to be made possible by the scientists, the efforts, on the facility at the broader facility and particularly at the Savannah River National Lab.

At the lab yesterday, I've talked about nuclear for both national security and for energy.

We also saw there just tremendous material science, that is a big advancement coming.

We can just make things we couldn't make before.

We can make materials we couldn't make before.

A lot of that advancement has been driven by the Savannah River National Lab and the great scientists I met and discussed with yesterday.

Sen.

Lindsey Graham> But we do more than just clean up tritium.

It's the get up and go of our nuclear force.

And we're proud for years... Go, Gamecocks.

We're proud for years to have been the place in America that provides that to our nuclear deterrent force.

And we're going to modernize our nuclear deterrent force to make sure that people do not miscalculate.

This is the most dangerous time I've seen in the world, really, since World War Two.

There are a lot of things going on out there.

There are a lot of bad guys on the move.

And so when it comes to America, we need to keep our deterrent shield up, and our nuclear deterrence force depends on this site since day one.

And we're going to keep delivering.

The National lab is a godsend to the community.

They're not that many of them.

When you have a national lab, then you can do things that other sites can't do.

It puts you in the major leagues of research.

So it's been a godsend.

And we want to cherish that lab and we want to grow it.

This facility here just fills out the puzzle.

This is a place where we can take all the other activities in the community and come here at the University and working with the Department of Energy and the private sector, create the things of the future that we need to create.

(applause) Gavin> Dr.

Johnny Green, director of the Savannah River National Laboratory, thanks for making time for us today.

Dr.

Green> Thanks for having me.

Gavin> So let's start off with just talking about before we talk about where we are right now I want to ask you just, you know, some context about the Savannah River Site versus the National Lab.

A lot of people hear the river site, they don't think that there are other entities in there.

So kind of walk us through what y'all do versus the Savannah River Site, at large.

Dr.

Green> Great question.

Great question.

So, the Savannah River site is a unique site.

It's a 310 square mile, so it's huge, a lot of forestry natural habitat there.

And the Department of Energy basically is responsible for the site.

And there's several organizations that are at the site.

Some are, doing things for national security, such as, things for nuclear deterrence, and some are doing environmental cleanup.

And so we are the Savannah River National Laboratory.

We're the research and development, innovation engine at the site.

And so we support nuclear deterrence, environmental cleanup for not only the site, but also support activity in the region and also in the nation.

Gavin> Because a lot of people talk about the bomb plant, they think about, <Right> Savannah River site.

But when you look at that history, 75 years at this site, pretty much, and the, the lab has been more recent.

But when you look at that, I mean, how do you guys work together with all these other entities?

Is there overlap when we're talking about tritium or waste disposal or how do you guys fit into that equation?

Dr.

Green> Absolutely.

We are, a key partner with the other organizations at the site.

And so, as you mentioned, the site really started in the early 50s, and it was basically, DuPont, was responsible for it, and it emerged out of the Cold War.

And so we were, you know, as a nation were responding to some of the threats in the Cold War.

And so there was a big ramp up at the site.

And how do you make, tritium and plutonium for nuclear deterrence?

And so, there's always, always been a research laboratory at the site.

And so that, history, you know, went on for several years.

And then the Cold War ended.

Right.

And then the mission of the site focused more on environmental cleanup.

How do you take nuclear material, nuclear waste, and how do you either reuse it or, treat it in some way or, dispose of it in some way and remediate it.

And so that was, I would say, the next phase of, of the site.

And so now, where we are right now is really looking at there's a, strong push on, how do we, have more nuclear deterrence, increase our nuclear stockpile, and how do we continue to ramp that capability up that had tapered off a little bit.

And so, we at the lab play a key role in helping look at how do you treat, nuclear material, how do you reuse it for advanced reactors like small modular reactors, which is something big, in our state and also for the nation.

But also we look at, key elements like tritium, which are key for, not only nuclear deterrent but also for fusion energy, which is a new, power source similar to the sun.

That is, something that's hopefully will be commercialized, at some point.

So our tritium expertise helps us out in a lot of different areas.

Gavin> And Dr.

Green, I don't want to weigh into, a weight, I should say into the wasp nest, literally a radioactive wasp nest.

Y'all didn't have anything to do with that.

But I think that really garnered a lot of headlines nationally, internationally, when folks saw that there was a radioactive wasp nest, because I don't think people realized that there is still a lot of cleanup underway on this site.

There's some background radiation, there's some contamination.

It is a superfund site in some parts.

So, any any reaction to that news when you heard about it, too, just to kind of get that out of the way?

Dr.

Green> The only thing that I can, say is, you know, you know, my son, he just, graduated from college from Belmont University in Nashville.

And, you know, you know, you hear from your kids every now and then.

So when this happened, I heard from him.

So, you know, I would say it was great.

It helped me connect with my son and helped him, you know, at least have an interesting story about, about the site.

So it has gotten us some visibility and notoriety, but, that's, you know, you...it's once again, it's part of the legacy of the site that you've got a lot of different things out there, but, but yeah, I got to hear from my son, so that was good.

Gavin> And that probably kind of goes into some misconceptions that people have about the site, too.

I mean, I feel like maybe that's probably either your, your part time job here is to kind of dispel some of those rumors or myths about what people think of when they think of a national lab here.

Dr.

Green> Absolutely.

And as you mentioned earlier, people normally refer to the site as the bomb plant.

And so really we want to transform that into the innovation center or the innovation sites, because there's a lot of innovative things going on.

There's a lot of, important work going on to, once again, you know, maintain and enhance, the nuclear stockpile.

How do you take, when you, have this, spent nuclear fuel, how do you reuse it or dispose of it?

And once again, we're doing a lot of great research in places like this, the Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative facility and, doing things that are in open research.

So it's an exciting time for the site and the laboratory.

Gavin> And we'll talk about this facility in a moment.

But Senator Lindsey Graham was here at the ribbon cutting not too long ago.

And he was saying that it's a critical importance to have a national lab at such a site when it comes to the future of energy and research, like you're talking about.

So what makes a national lab so important?

Why is it so critical to have something like this right in our backyard in South Carolina?

Dr.

Green> So there's 17 Department of Energy National Laboratories, so not very many across the United States.

And they've been referred to as the crown jewels of, the R and D enterprise, the research and development enterprise.

And I think they're really important to not just South Carolina, but the region, for several reasons.

One, it brings innovation and scientific knowledge to the area, workforce development and economic development.

I mentioned that I was at Oak Ridge National Laboratory for over 20 years, and the Oak Ridge National Laboratory has been a great, economic development engine for East Tennessee.

And they also are, having a strong, nuclear renaissance there.

And I think we can do the same thing here in South Carolina.

And S.R.N.L.

can be a big part of that.

Gavin> When we talk about nuclear renaissance, we'll talk about energy demand and, and the need for more generation in a moment, but, is it hand in hand, in your opinion, when it comes to what you all do here, in terms of research for the private industry, but then also how it could be applied for any number of uses when it comes to government use.

Dr.

Green> Absolutely.

So data centers and artificial intelligence, you know, are projected to be a huge energy demand draw.

And, recently, the Department of Energy selected the Savannah River Site as one of four sites, for hosting an A.I.

data center powered by nuclear power.

And so it's, I think, a demonstration was possible and the demonstration of how you can have off grid energy production to support these data centers, which is, you know, depending on the projections, a huge increase in demand.

And so I think that is, you know, the way things are trending, that is going to be a big need for our, not just the state but also for the region, and we can be a leader in that.

Gavin> You know, we'll talk about energy more in a second.

But, talking about Senator Graham, you know, he's been a big proponent for y'all all up in the Senate getting money billions for S.R.S., especially when we're talking about the mission changing over the years too, you know, at one point, we're talking about that mixed oxide fuel facility.

Again, that's not under a lab, but that's S.R.S.

<Right.> So, but, you know, there's, you know, 6.5 metric tons of plutonium piling up here.

There was that settlement for about $600 million dollars.

And now that mock facility is being used for the plutonium processing facility.

So.

And that's going to be making plutonium pits.

<Yes.> Again, not y'all, but is there overlap?

Do you help support that mission, as well, in a sense, how does that kind of work out when you guys come to the lab?

>> So Savannah River Nuclear Solutions is responsible for that...project, the S.R.P.P.F.

that, you mentioned.

So we provide support to that, and so R and D support.

So that's where we, we fit into it and we do the same thing, in terms of tritium.

So we, we've done it historically for tritium.

And we'll be doing more of that for the plutonium pit production mission.

Gavin> We're talking about Senator Graham being here for that ribbon cutting.

We're here at the Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative here at the USC Aiken campus.

So tell us about this facility.

It's brand new.

No one's even really here with us today.

But, what do you guys hope to do with this space?

Who's going to be benefiting from this?

Dr.

Green> So this is, 13 years in the making.

So it's a lot of, my predecessors worked on, on getting this here.

And so we had a great support from the state to, make this happen.

And so it's really an innovation engine for not just the laboratory, but the region.

We are at the Savannah River Site, which is a secure closed site.

It's not open to the public.

Right.

There's not public access to it.

And so a lot of the things that we do folks don't know about or it's a mystery, right?

It's almost a secret.

Right.

It's almost like a secret site that's been out there.

And so being here at the A.M.C., here at the USC Aiken campus gives us an open door to the community to see what Savannah River National Laboratory is doing for the community and the research that we're doing that we can talk about.

Right.

And that is open.

And so we want to do things to advance environmental technologies, fusion energy, nuclear energy and also critical infrastructure like the grid infrastructure.

How do we keep the grid safe, and secure and keep that going?

And so one activity or partnership is, South Carolina S.C.

Nexus, which is funded by the Department of Commerce, which is a grant, that we're a partner on.

And we're doing some grid research there that has a connection to this facility.

So we're really excited about how we can do more partnerships, with the state and the region and to really get technologies out into the marketplace, get things out of the fence out into the marketplace.

Gavin> Because when I think of manufacturing, I'm thinking of, you know, the Boeings, the Michelin's, the other companies that are dominating the state.

But when you all talk about manufacturing, in this sense, you're talking about more, I guess, applied research?

Dr.

Green> Applied research, but that could be Boeing.

It could be Michelin.

It could be any folks within the region or the state that want to work with us.

You know, we would love to partner with them, because a lot of the technologies are applicable, right.

So it's you know, the additive manufacturing approaches can be applied in a lot of different ways.

And then A.I.

will be a big driver for that.

Gavin> Yeah.

We were talking about how y'all are going to fit into a little bit of an A.I.

cluster down here, it seems like what.

What's the future look like when it comes to that?

Dr.

Green> Well I think A.I.

has the potential to solve a lot of problems.

I think it can help us, reduce the cost of an environmental cleanup.

I think it could save billions of dollars in that space.

I think it could also help us come up with new novel approaches to enable fusion energy, for example.

So I think the sky's the limit.

And it also can help us be more efficient, and, get some operational efficiencies, as well.

So it's a, it's a delicate balance of how do you, you know, optimize A.I.

and not eliminate, the need for humans.

But I think at least in research, I think the researcher who knows how to use A.I.

will have an advantage over the researcher who doesn't.

But I don't see A.I.

replacing the researcher.

I think, you still will need folks doing experiments and research, and I just don't don't foresee that happening.

Gavin> Optimistic, hopefully.

Dr.

Green> Optimistic.

Optimistic.

Hopefully Skynet won't come in, and you know- (laughing) Gavin> Because you still new control of everything.

But when we talk about this facility too, and how it fits into the, you know, the 17 other national labs, I mean, is this something that we're seeing replicated at other national labs across the country, or are we pretty unique having this facility here?

Dr.

Green> I think it's fairly unique to have a facility of this scale at the campus of University... national labs and universities do collaborate, but typically not quite at this scale of having, you know, a roughly 63 thousand square foot research facility at a university campus.

I think that's a fairly, fairly unique opportunity that we have here.

Gavin> And the Department of Energy, Secretary Chris Wright was here for that ribbon cutting, too.

Where does D.O.E.

see this facility fit into that?

What did he maybe talk to you about?

Did he give you any marching orders, what he wants to see coming out of here?

Dr.

Green> I think it's consistent with what, you know, Senator Graham and also, Congressman Wilson see as, it's...that, that front door for the laboratory?

How can we use it to promote economic development and technology transfer for the region and the nation?

And how do we, you know, partner with industry and also with academia to, have an impact?

And the great thing about being here on a university campus is we can do a lot of workforce development and training and collaborative research right here.

So, and we also want to bring in other university partners, as well to come in and work with us and really just create an ecosystem here.

We want to have an innovation corridor here in Aiken.

And I think that's going be a big part of that.

Gavin> When we talk about the students coming here, I think you, we've been throwing some numbers around.

They're going to be trickling in.

Are you going to be seeing students from across the USC campus network, when we talk about, you know, people coming in maybe from Columbia or is it going to be more USC Aiken or it going to be a mix?

How's that going to work out...?

Dr.

Green> It will be primarily, faculty and students at USC Aiken.

But I am expecting some, folks from Columbia to maybe, you know, spend some time here and even, maybe have a sabbatical here, or come in and out and we may have folks from, other universities who are a key partner, such as Clemson or South Carolina State or Georgia Tech, or the University of Georgia.

They may have folks, you know, coming in and collaborating with us, as well.

So, you know, we'll see.

We'll see.

Gavin> Yeah, breaking a lot of boundaries there when we're talking about collaboration like that.

But what we're talking about future research.

Can we talk a little bit about what current research is underway, maybe at S.R.N.L., that you can talk about, that is maybe of some interest to folks when it comes to, especially when it comes to energy and the demand that we're seeing.

Dr.

Green> So one thing that we're doing right now is looking at, you know, how do we take nuclear fuel that's been used in some way?

And then how do you reuse it and repurpose these advanced reactors?

Small modular reactors use, you know, different types of fuel.

And so we have a lot of expertise on how do you, take that, you know, nuclear material that could be considered waste, then turning it into nuclear fuel.

So that's one area that, we're really interested in.

Fusion.

We have a large program with the Department of Energy looking at, how do we work with commercial fusion companies to enable fusion energy, which once again harnesses the power of the sun here on Earth.

That's a huge area for us.

Artificial intelligence we're trying to look at, you know, how do we use sensors and data to not only, accelerate, clean up at Savannah River Site and reduce the cost of it and improve the safety for workers, but how do you scale that up across the nation?

There's 15 sites that are still in the cleanup phase in the department.

So how can you scale that up to a huge initiative, to help out?

So those are a handful of things that we're really excited about.

And, that, we think are promising from the laboratory.

Gavin> Because we've been talking about the need for, for energy and that's growing because of data centers, also some growth, but primarily the data centers, A.I.

we're talking about, it's led to a lot of discussions, a lot of debate, at least in the legislature here in South Carolina.

We saw some legislation move this past year talking about that, making it easier to get some of these bigger projects online.

We're even seeing V.C.

Summer possibly coming back to life.

Those two reactors, that got caught up in that whole fraud situation.

Now they're getting rejuvenated.

It seems like under Santee Cooper, but when you look at this need for more energy in America, and South Carolina, you know, maybe outside of what you do at the lab, but what do you see as maybe being the need or the, the fix?

I should say to this situation we find ourselves into when we need more energy in this country?

Is it nuclear?

Is it renewables?

How do you see that maybe going forward?

Dr.

Green> So I think it's you know, I don't think you can put all your eggs in one basket.

I think each region and each area has its own unique needs.

We're fortunate that we're in a state that's pro-nuclear.

Every, every state isn't pro-nuclear.

Right.

And so I think you have to tailor each system for the, the grid and assets and, the community needs because with the community, you know, what their preference is and comfort are really important with any technology.

And, you know, I think another thing that, Senator Graham talked about is how do we secure these A.I.

centers?

I think that's another dimension that isn't talked about quite a bit.

And so he threw out a little bit of a challenge, to the community of, you know, if we build these A.I.

data centers, how do we secure them?

So I think that's another dimension.

In addition to, I'll call it, tailored, energy for each region area.

But then also how do we secure these data centers?

Gavin> And Johney, we have about five minutes left.

I want to ask you just about the differences between some of these, some of these methods that we've been talking about, small modular reactors versus fusion.

Obviously, they're all kind of in different states of growth or, you know, applicability at this point.

I did see that in Virginia that the Chesterfield Planning Commission greenlit an application for a conditional use permit that would allow Commonwealth fusion systems to build a fusion power plant.

Because I was gonna ask you how, how far away are we from commercial viability of fusion?

Sounds like we're getting closer.

I mean, what do you think in the next maybe five, ten, 15, 20 years?

Are we going to start seeing some of these smaller reactors, possibly fusion?

I mean, what's your hope at this point?

Dr.

Green> So, great question.

So, there's depending on the application there's different technologies.

So one that isn't talked about as much is micro reactors.

So micro reactors you know, let's you know maybe it's a few megawatts of energy.

A lot, a lot of times those are used for military applications or where you are, you know,...supplying power to a micro grid or a smaller community.

And so that's, that's one end of the spectrum.

Then you talk about, you know, small modular reactors, you're getting into larger, you know, tens, hundreds of megawatts.

When you talk about small modular reactors, and so, you know, that's on a different scale.

So you're talking much larger energy there.

And so those are emerging.

And so there's a plan to try to at least demonstrate, a small modular reactor, July 4th, 2026, is a, is a goal is a stretch goal for the department.

So that's on, you know, one end of the scale.

Then fusion energy, harnessing the energy of the sun.

There's a lot of interest in that.

A lot of startups, a lot of commercial vendors trying to make that happen.

And tritium, of course, is, is a key element in enabling fusion.

Gavin> We're at the Capitol here.

Dr.

Green> We're at the Capitol here.

But that, you know, we need a few more breakthroughs there, some materials, breakthroughs.

How do we recycle the tritium?

Because only about 5 percent of the tritium is used in fusion effectively, and the other 95 percent has to be recycled and captured.

So how do you, you know, do it safely, make it cost effective?

So, you know, I don't have a crystal ball to say, but I would say that's a little bit further down the road, the micro reactor is a small modular reactor, which are, you know, fairly near term, and I would say fusion is probably a little bit further away.

Gavin> And with about a minute left, I want to ask you, you just started in this role in January of this year?

Dr.

Green> Yes, sir.

Gavin> So tell me what you hope to accomplish here at the lab, what you hope to see happen here at this, this space, as well?

Dr.

Green> Well, you're, you're helping me out by having this, this interview and this discussion because, I think we've been a hidden jewel here in the state.

And I don't know if a lot of the folks even know there's a, one of 17 departments, national labs, a crown jewel right here in South Carolina.

So one, getting more awareness of what we do, here.

And so there's three things that we do, at Savannah River National Lab, national security, environmental stewardship and energy resilience.

We've got a great, workforce, 14 hundred folks.

We have over $700 million dollars of economic impact for the region.

So, and also, you know, we're all about simultaneous excellence in research, safe operation and community service.

So, we give out a lot of grants and scholarships to, the local community.

So we want to be a, asset to the community and want people to know about what we're doing, and we want to do even more.

Gavin> More to come.

Director Green, thank you.

Dr.

Green> Thank you.

Gavin> I appreciate it.

Thanks for joining us again on This Week in South Carolina.

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You can also stay up to date with the latest news on South Carolina throughout the week by listening to the South Carolina Lede Podcast, which is available wherever you find podcasts, and on South CarolinaPublic Radio.org For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson, Be well, South Carolina.

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