Narrator> This podcast is made possible through listener contributions to the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Yo.

What's up beautiful people?

I'm Kennedy Alexander along with Courtney Thomas and our digital.

And this is the "Auxdacity" Courtney> where music meets culture, history and the future we're shaping together.

Kennedy> In each episode, we take a deep dive into how sound moves people across generations, genres, and moments in time.

On the Auxdacity, we love celebrating talent that's coming straight out of South Carolina.

Murcier is an up and coming duo, building momentum and creating a sound all their own, and you'll get a chance to see them perform a little later in the show.

Courtney> Today we're talking about the past, present and future of music and how what came before still shapes what we hear today.

Joining us today are voices who live and breathe music, artists and creators who know its history, its influence and where it's headed next.

We have some incredible guests with us today.

We have Neek during the day, Neek at night, and Dr.

Birgitta Johnson, a ethnomusicologist.

So Dr.

Johnson, I have to start and ask you, what is an ethnomusicologist?

Kennedy> Yes.

Dr.

Birgitta> Shortest answer.

the study of music in culture or music in social context.

That's a quick, quick version.

Courtney> Okay, I know there's more.

Yeah, I know there's more.

But let's just jump into the conversation here.

So what made you fall in love with music?

Not to sound too Brown Sugar, but what's your what brought you here?

Dr.

Birgitta> That's a great primer.

I've always loved music.

I always tell people I could whistle before I could talk.

My dad taught me how to whistle as a baby, and so I would be in the crib whistling.

My mom hated it, but, you know, we used to go to the store, and I used to sing all the items, commercials off the shelf.

And so back in those days, you had to check, And so my mom would get her check verified.

They was like, "We know who you are."

They'd already know who I am, because I would be known to come in there and sing the commercials from all the products I would see from television.

So I always loved music.

Muppet show was a big influence.

I'm happy to see it back on TV, <Yes.> So I've always been around music, so I played instruments in elementary school and just moving on from there.

Kennedy> Okay, that's super dope.

Courtney> A great origin.

Kennedy> We got Neek representing Hot 103.9 in the building.

So Neek, you got to tell people when did you fall in love with music?

Neek> Oh, goodness.

So I grew up along the Jersey shore, and you know, hip hop was definitely prevalent in the tri state area, Jersey, New York and Philadelphia.

So, you know, we got to see the rap and the break dancing and all of the things.

And, you know, I always used to love music.

My mom and dad, traditionally on Saturday mornings, you know, they getting up and they're turning on music and cleaning up the house.

And so that's where my love of music started from, my parents.

Kennedy> Oh, man, that's really dope I can imagine, like, trying to, like, break dance like, like right now, at this age.

I think I might throw a hip out or something.

Courtney> We don't want that.

Kennedy> No.

We don't want that at all.

Courtney> I actually kind of want to ask our shejay the same question you know, because what I think about the people who are sitting here, you'll have this encyclopedic, encyclopedic knowledge of music.

And I think T.O.

has a very similar understanding.

So how did you fall in love with music?

SheJay T.O.> This is going to sound very, nontraditional.

Tupac.

Tupac just drove straight into it.

And from there, you just got to kind of start peeling back the layers.

So to me, you know, speaking on favorite artist I know from the Tri-State area, but I know you also spent a lot of time in Atlanta in the in the South, pretty much most of your career.

If you had to say a top three, top three, who might be like top three, influential or favorite?

Neek> I would say probably like lyrically, in his delivery would be Rakim.

You know, when we go ahead and we take it down south, I would say definitely Outkast.

<Yes> You know, I just love the synergy between the two of them.

So, you know, I'm, I'm saying I don't necessarily have one that's favorite over the other.

I just like both of them together.

Ooh.

Female wise.

T.O.> -I was about to say you got to throw a female in there.

Neek> You actually were playing MC Lyte earlier, you know what I'm saying?

So, you know, I would definitely give, you know, kudos to her as well.

You know, she always has had a very unique sounding voice.

Courtney> We can't mention Outkast without letting Dr.

Johnson hop in there, because I know you done some work, on Outkast.

Dr.

Birgitta> Exactly.

Neek said it perfectly.

I like both of them.

I'm from Atlanta.

I grew up when they were growing up.

You know, this whole scene was like my high school upward age.

And so, they as a kind of amalgamation of hip hop in the South.

So the hip hop, the soul, the funk, the church, I've written about their spiritual side as well as just all these symbols that they bring in.

So as I do so, they are like dynamic duo of like what southern hip hop really is outside of kind of copying another style.

They made it their own.

I heard them, I was like, this sounds like those dudes who go to Tri-City.

I'm like, oh, (laughter) So they sounded like where they were from.

And they represented a multi-generational way of thinking about hip hop.

So love Outkast, you know, we don't need no more records.

They, (laughter) they're the...old style.

SheJay T.O.> All right.

I could use another one.

One more.

Dr.

Birgitta> We can eat off their stuff forever.

<Y'all really should.> Dr.

Birgitta> They set a good standard.

Now we just want all the younger artists to kind of follow in that, represent from where you really are and not, you know, chasing trends.

Kennedy> Yeah, I'm a huge Outkast fan.

One thing I love about like, Outkast and artists like Outkast is like when you listen to the music and like, they're rapping about the community that they came from and like, so you go to Atlanta and you see a Peachtree, or you see a Campbellton Road and you be like, "Oh man, <Yeah> they were talking about that in the songs.

Like it feels like I get to experience what they experienced.

How do you like how do you guys think, and both of you guys can answer this.

Like, how do you feel music influenced community and identity, kind of like when we're growing up?

Neek> I would say, you know, you can actually see it, you know, through fashion, you know, honestly and truly, like, you know, I feel like.

And when we're talking about hip hop, that it was, you know, influenced through a lot of fashion, you know, what I mean.

It's synonymous with one another.

So with hip hop, you know, you kind of got the the flash and the floss and, you know, I mean, and, you know, with the braggadocios, you know, kind of personalities that, you know, came from hip hop and stuff like that.

So I feel like that, that fashion definitely bleeded into mainstream America, you know what I'm saying.

And that came through, you know, the evolution of hip hop when we're starting from the 70s, all the way up to still present day, you know what I mean?

So I would say that, that- T.O.> I would agree.

I definitely think like, music shaped the fashion world and vice versa.

You got to think, even 80s, 90s, you got like everybody was on the baggy jeans girl, TLC, everybody was in like baggy clothes, Tommy Hilfiger.

<Yeah.

Absolutely.> And then we evolved.

Yes.

It's almost going back there now.

Yeah.

Neek> You know, things go in cycles and then, you know, when we talk also talk about community and you know, and if you are a lyrical person, you know, you had certain artists that, you know, spoke about what was going on in present day.

You know what I mean?

At that time and you still have some artists that, you know, still talk about what is culturally going on, always, you know, whether it's, you know, it's politics, whether it is, you know, war, military, whatever the case may be, whatever is going on in society, you know, people in music, And I won't even just say hip hop, We're just going to say all genres of art you know, definitely will speak on and reflected.

and we all saw it in the Grammys, you know what I'm saying there was a lot of people definitely speaking out, you know.

So yeah, that I think that's how music also, you know shapes community as well.

Courtney> How about you Dr.

Johnson?

Dr.

Birgitta> I say shapes as well as reflects community.

The best music, the most popular music sounds like what you've been through.

So we think about blackness specifically why it's so globally popular because it's telling everyday stories.

And so that's always been in here in black American music styles, where you'll peep that artists are singing about what they see everyday.

That's what blues artist was doing, singing about not only just, you know, sadness, and, you know, my baby broke up with me.

They also talked about the racism every day.

They talked about their achievement and how to get back on them or whatever, or just Courtney> -their mouth hurt... Dr.

Birgitta> just had to survive the survive the world.

And so when you have this that resonates with people, it's going to be, you know, probably in their community, but other people are going to say, oh, I experienced that as well.

That's how hip hop becomes a global genre.

It wasn't a rich genre.

You know, people from the lowest parts of the community were coming up with this wonderful creative thing, and then you didn't have to be, you know, a music major or know 15 instruments, You can literally get a beat and your rhymes and you can go and so people around the world was like, I can do that too.

And the welcoming message is, you can be a part of this.

And so the community aspects of it is reflecting what's going on.

If it's if it's looking too fake or too phony, we don't want it.

And you might have a good little hit, you know, for a couple of years.

But when people realize that's all you have and it's not truly your authentic self or your voice, <Exactly> it's on to the next SheJay T.O.> The key word that you said is authentic.

And like, we could feel it, we could see it.

And so the artist last, like the Kendricks, the J Cole, even Tupac and Biggie took from then to now.

Like you're telling a story of what you saw.

Yeah.

But you paint the picture so well I can see it too.

Like I never went through what Tupac went through, but he painted the picture like Picasso, so it just kind of made me feel like I was there.

And Outkast did the same thing, kind of with song, with the Sasha Thumper song.

It was like, you know, if you can, you're authentically you and you can paint a picture, I feel like you're here to last.

Neek> Absolutely.

Dr.

Birgitta> Definitely.

Courtney> Dr Johnson, in your last answer, you actually went through several decades of music.

I would love to know from you just... I mean, you also teach young people.

<Yes.> So what are some of the like, decades and moments in music culture that are maybe being reflected right now, or maybe you wish were being reflected?

Dr.

Birgitta> Well no, I always ask the students... you know, one student mentioned in their quiz response, Tupac.

And I was like, well, how do you hear Tupac now?

Because a lot of young people are not really into radio as much.

They're mostly either into streaming or their own devices.

So I'm like, well, how do you find the music?

And it was like, "Oh, I found it on Spotify "or I find it here."

'How do you find out about it?.

"Oh, my uncle."

And so oftentimes families always come up as far as how young people are being exposed to music.

One student said his favorite artists.

You know, he's like, 'I do.

I like old school.'

I said, "What kind of old school?

He started naming all these southern soul artists.

And so most of his classmates were like naming hip hop artists and a couple of K-pop artists.

But he was like, 'No, I like southern soul.'

And so he's a guy around 19, 20 years old.

He likes the music that we associate with older people.

So families oftentimes are really intricate to introducing their young people to different types of music.

They are from different eras and different genres.

And and of course, now that anyone could pick up a phone and play anything, you have the variet now.

You have the kids who love K-pop, K-pop.

And it's like, I only have, you know, two friends would like this, and the other friend is in another county somewhere, but they get to talk to each other because they're on the same devices.

So yeah, I'm always interested in how they found the music, but also who influenced them.

Courtney> That's Saturday morning clean and music.

(laughing) Kennedy> We was talking earlier and you know, you guys being at the radio station and Dr.

Johnson just mentioned, you know, social media, what role does social media play in kind of shaping culture?

Neek> Oh, well, I mean, you know, it's like you basically have to integrate it in what we're currently doing now because like she said, there's not, I would say probably the age demographic anywhere from 12 to maybe like 25, 26.

You know, they aren't listening to the radio.

So how else can we reach them?

We reach them through social media.

So we are, you know, creating different content, whether it's somebody that's coming in that we're interviewing, you know, sometimes we come up with fun little skits that we do, in-house or whatever the case may be, or we're covering when there may be a show in town or something like that.

So, you know, social media is always a conversation along with the music and incorporating it on different platforms, so.

Kennedy> Yeah, because I'm a high school teacher and like, I'm always playing music in the classroom and I'll play a song and my students are like, oh, we don't want to hear that Coach K, but then somebody do a dance to it on Tik Tok.

And now it's their favorite song.

<Right.> I've been playing that song all semester.

Dr.

Birgitta> Right.

Right.

SheJay T.O.> How do you feel where radio doesn't fully have a place, with you being in radio and we had the personalities who would influenced what was going to pop back then, but now it's like radio is taking more and more away from the personality.

And when you're competing with Spotify and everything else.

It's like it's almost like the personality would be the most important aspect, if I can get the music anywhere.

But how do you feel like radio has changed to where they're not shaping the culture as much, or they're not kind of being the the driving factor for what's going to pop?

Neek> Right.

So, I mean, you brought up a very valid point.

And so I think it's going to be up to the individual on air personality that is on even with, you know, okay.

So no, you can't talk for ten minutes.

You know what I'm saying about something.

What you have to do is you have to kind of just be creative in your delivery in 60 seconds or less, you know what I mean?

And then sometimes if it's a really something that is, we feel like may be important to the audience that we're broadcasting to, then we're going to go ahead and we're going to expound on that.

We got to find different creative ways.

And as you were saying earlier, is telling a story, right?

And the person being able to paint the picture is theater of the mind.

So, you know, still there's people and I'm still even blown away to this day where people are like, "Oh, I've never seen you before."

And I'm like, 'I mean, you can go on the website You can go on social media and see what I look like.

But, you know, there are some people that sometimes they just still listen to the radio.

Courtney> You have one of those voices that just South Carolina, oh, I know that is Neek's voice, Neek> Thank you.

Courtney> I appreciate it.

Dr.

Birgitta> To your point.

To your point.

We have to challenge the community to support the radio we have.

I'm on the pump it.

You have to support radio.

You have to tell young people, radio is not dead.

Radio is even online, as well.

But it's more important to make sure you have...know your local radio personalities.

They are the people speaking for your community and so you can listen to syndicated corporate radio.

But when something goes down, you don't want to hear what's going on in L.A.

you want to hear what's going on in your state, in your community.

So you have to support your deejays.

You have to call in.

You have to make your voice heard, because they are ambassadors.

So let's we start to changing this narrative and saying, you have to call in and support your people.

They won't be there.

They are fighting corporate radio.

So we got to help them fight by tuning in signing up, getting on the social media sharing the stuff because they're ours.

They are the ones, you know, when they say when Martin Luther King was assassinated, the radio deejays were the one telling people to stay inside, stay off the street, be cool, playing the music you need to hear.

Corporations don't do that.

We got to support our radio.

We just can't buy the narrative is dead.

It's not dead.

As long as we're here, they're going to be here.

Courtney> That's your homework.

Support your local media, public television and the radio.

SheJay T.O.> It's all about bridging the gap now, like, who would you both say are more influential artists now, like current artists or new artists?

Who would you say that are shaping the culture from what you see and hear, request wise, what you see with students?

Neek> We talked about Kendrick Lamar.

<Kendrick> You know what I'm saying?

and on, on a global scale what him and SZA did, last year by going on tour and actually co-headlining one another and not just doing venues anywhere that may be about 5 thousand seater to maybe 15, 20 thousand, they were doing stadiums, you know what I mean?

Like he made it on Forbes list as one of the top five, I think, actually grossing, you know, concerts and tours of 2025.

So you know what I'm saying?

And that, you know, usually that, that space is not necessarily reserved for a hip hop artist.

You know, he definitely, you know, broke some barriers.

And, so, yeah, that's what I, you know.

Dr.

Birgitta> I would say yeah.

I would say Kendrick and his work wife Beyonce.

Courtney> Yes.

(laughter) Courtney> The young people are calling them work wife - work husband because how they come out and how they have certain parallels in their career.

And like you said, those arena tours, Beyonce being a still influential, multi-generational.

She's bringing people into black music around different generations.

I mean, before Cowboy Carter, there are about 5 or 6 black country artists no one knew about.

All of a sudden, their numbers up there getting invited to tours They're having their own tours.

And so those influential artists that are always opening doors for other artists are the ones I'm really interested in.

People who are standing up for the little person, the little person, the little independent artists, people like Doechii All the kids are talking about Doechii now and what she's repping, how she's representing the culture of hip hop and beyond in fashion world.

So, you know, the people who are not just a singular solo person, the ones who are in community, who are trying to bring people along, who are trying to create opportunities with their success.

Those are the most successful ones.

Courtney> Y'all brought up Kendrick and Beyonce.

And when you when I hear those artists, I immediately think samples.

So I would love to hear from y'all.

What are some of the like most influential samples?

Because a sample is a way to, like, bring that history into the present.

So I'd love to hear from y'all.

Dr.

Birgitta> I mean, you have certain artists who are just going to be well.

So quick to talk about James Brown samples to Roy Ayers.

Those are the two most sampled artists, Roy Ayers and James Brown like statistically they have the most samples.

It's sometimes the era because the music is so rich.

If you got some rich music is going to get sampled.

If you have permission <that> Neek> I was going to bring that up, (laughter) Dr.

Birgitta> if you have a mission because once again, Marvin Gaye would probably be the most sampled person, but his estate is like, absolutely not.

Courtney> One of the issues that's coming up today with like, ownership and who owns what we're talking about A.I.

So like going into the present and future of music, it can be very hard to own things when it's in this life commons and you have like the A.I.

generating songs, creating artists.

So what are we doing about music ownership when A.I.

is this tool/...?

Dr.

Birgitta> You fight A.I.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest.

I'm a candid person.

My students know that about me.

<Yeah.> If you watch the premiere show of the Grammys, that's the four hours that happen before the Grammys.

They give out 86 awards.

They're about 3 or 4 artists talking about live music and no, A.I.

because A.I.

steals A.I.

does not create anything.

It takes from an amalgamation of sounds.

And so if we're going to fight for James Brown, only his music and...on some of his music and then let a program steal his music, that's what they doing.

They're taking the actual essence of the production and the style and refashioning it.

But the artists don't get any credit.

The musicians don't get credit.

And so if we're going to fight for black music and black artists on one hand and then go, like A.I.

is a tool No it's not.

It's actually musical theft.

And so you do have A.I.

that can mix up some rhythms and beats, but when you're actually talking about styles and sounds and lyrics, it's taking other people's work.

And that's what other artists are trying to fight back.

We saw the case with a degenerated artist, where Victoria Monet said she stole my name, and then another singer said she stole my sound.

SheJay T.O.> K. Michelle.

Yeah.

Dr.

Birgitta> So if you're saying this person is stealing music, A.I.

They sound like me.

I can't fight you in court because you're literally stealing my voice.

<Yeah.> And so it gets really slippery.

And a lot of artists don't like it because of it's taking other people's work It's really just kind of refashioning it, and it's hard to fight it legally.

I know the Recording Academy is dealing with it.

I know they have rules against it right now, and they're trying to go to court and lobby, but if you've been fighting for black artists all these decades, you cannot let technology make you give up on it.

Neek> Not only are we talking about the music and the creation of music, but we're also talking about, you know, like our intellectual property.

You get what I'm saying?

We're talking about our face.

Like Matthew McConaughey just went on and decided to, like basically copyright, like, you know, I'm saying his face, his face, you know what I'm saying?

His voice, like, you know, everything.

He was like, I'm not waiting for Congress to try to come up with laws like, you know, and I mean, like, just because you have, you know, content creators that are on You Tube that are using A.I., using, you know what I'm saying?

Prominent people using their voices without their permission and making money off of it, You know, so is this like, you know, some people are taking it into their own hands... Kennedy> So we got to find A.I.

and we got to, we got to make sure we copyright this.

What skills do you guys feel like artists are?

It sounds like humans in general.

What skills will we need in the future to make sure that we're still able to do that?

Neek> I mean, well, we still, even though we are fighting that battle with AI, we still got to learn how to use it.

Dr.

Birgitta> Yeah, I would say learn the business and know your rights.

Yes.

We always tell people to learn the business, and people still don't learn the business.

Neek> I agree.

You're right.

Dr.

Birgitta> But there's a shorter way to do it and it's easier way to do it.

You Tube tutorials, and they still put up books on the industry even after the industry changes, you still have know your rights, know what's legal, what they can legally do right now or they can't do it legally.

And how to protect yourself, protect your art.

When to put up that thing on Bandcamp or Spotify, and when not to make sure you own it first before you put it up.

Because when it's out there, A.I.

can pull it from anywhere.

So unless you say I own this thing, intellectual property, you don't own it.

I don't care if your grandma ...20 years ago, if you have not proven you own this thing, they can take it from you.

So it's always goes back to education.

We've always said that to African Americans, education knowledge is going to be a liberation thing for us forever.

This is the same thing knowing when it's a tool versus when it's theft.

You know, those types of things when they are literally, you know, working against you and trying to work around what you're doing versus, hey, I can I can, you know, use this work...thing.

I can work my pace maker better with A.I.

versus I'm stealing all your legacy.

We can't be mad about cultural appropriation of other people taking our stuff, but then we're giving it away because we want to just do it quickly.

Do it fast.

Courtney> I'm so grateful for all of you.

Both of you being here.

Kennedy> Yeah, definitely.

Thank you guys for being here.

Neek> Thank you for having us.

Kennedy> All right, family, music is memory, movement and momentum.

Courtney> Follow us on social.

Check out the playlist that inspired today's episode and keep the conversation going.

Both> Have the Auxdacity to leave your mark.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Bring me your fears darling.

♪ ♪ Bring me your tears.

♪ ♪ Bring me your sorrows.

♪ ♪ And, I'll hold them here.

♪ ♪ Life is a mystery that unfolds in years.

♪ ♪ I'll go the distance.

♪ ♪ Tell me where we go from here.

♪ ♪ Said we can go ♪ ♪ under a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ And we can grow.

♪ ♪ Even when the skies aren't blue.

♪ ♪ So we can go ♪ ♪ even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ And we can grow ♪ ♪ even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ Yeah.

Blue.

♪ Blue.

♪ ♪ Bring me your fears darling.

♪ ♪ Bring me you tears.

♪ ♪ Bring me your sorrows and then I'll hold them here ♪ ♪ Life is a mystery that unfolds in years ♪ ♪ I'll go the distance.

♪ ♪ and where we go from here.

♪ ♪ Said that we can go ♪ ♪ under a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ We can go, ♪ ♪ even when the skies are blue, ♪ ♪ said we can go ♪ ♪ even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ And we can grow ♪ ♪ even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Yeah!

♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ Blue.... ♪ ♪ even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ Even when the stars shine true.

♪ ♪ Even in the moonlight streaming through the clouds ♪ ♪ like everything's all right too.

♪ ♪ Even in a midnight's blue.

♪ ♪ Even when the stars shine through.

♪ ♪ Even when the moonlight streaming through the clouds.

♪ ♪ Like everything's all right too.

♪ ♪ ♪ everything is all right too ♪ ♪ ♪ Everything is all right too ♪ ♪ ♪ Even in the moonlight ♪ ♪ streaming through the clouds like ♪ ♪ everything is all right too.

♪ ♪ ♪ Everything is all right too.

♪ ♪ ♪ Everything is all right too.

♪ ♪ ♪ Even moonlight's streaming ♪ ♪ through the clouds like ♪ ♪ everything's all right too.

♪ (music fades) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪