♪♪ >> MILLS: [ Laughs ] So, this is a little American alligator.

It's not a crocodile.

Okay, here we go.

Here's a couple more.

In fact, one of 'em just flew.

In order to protect our habitats, it's important to do the baseline ecological research on the plants and animals in them.

Now, there's a variety of institutions that are doing ecological research in the area.

Let's take a look at some of these scientists and some of the work they're doing.

We're here at the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources' Waddell Mariculture Center.

And we're here with Al Stokes, and he is the manager of this facility.

Al, I appreciate you letting us come and hang out with you today.

>> STOKES: Oh, glad to have y'all here today.

>> MILLS: So, tell us a little bit about some of the research that you do here.

>> STOKES: Well, we have three fish species we're working with, developing tools to rebuild populations, and those are spotted seatrout, red drum, and cobia.

And we have a small project looking at culturing marine shrimp in a biofloc system.

>> MILLS: Well, that's all important stuff.

>> STOKES: Oh, yes.

>> MILLS: Al, what are you guys doing to sort of restock fish populations in the Low Country?

>> STOKES: Well, we get our larvae from the Marine Resources Division in Charleston.

We hold them 30 to 40 days and then we harvest them and move 'em to locations up and down the coast, and then we monitor those fish populations, and we do that looking at their DNA.

With no plastic tags, DNA doesn't fall off.

And so, we will put out, usually stock about 1 million to 1.5 million fish a year.

>> MILLS: So, Al, what's in these tanks?

>> STOKES: Uh, nothing at the moment.

We received $1.1 million from the legislature.

We got a lot of support from our legislative delegation and DNR, and we're gonna start renovation in the next month or so.

So, everything is empty in here, and we'll start moving all the tanks out and start rebuilding.

>> MILLS: Yeah, and so what we're looking at today is mostly outside.

>> STOKES: Everything's outside today.

We're gonna go to a pond and remove some adult red drum and some black drum.

It's gonna be a complete harvest of that pond.

It's gonna be a lot of fun.

>> MILLS: So, Al, I absolutely love to catch red drum, but tell us why they're so important to the ecosystem.

>> STOKES: Oh, they're a wonderful predator.

They'll feed on finfish.

They'll feed on crustaceans.

They're fun to catch, especially around oyster banks.

They're very aggressive feeders.

Red drum spawn in the fall and about 14 to 15 months later, they'll weigh about a pound.

So, they'll be in the estuarine systems for three to four years before they move offshore and become adults.

Great predator.

>> MILLS: Oh, they're -- they're fabulous.

So, how long do they live?

>> STOKES: Um, in South Carolina, I think the oldest fish we've seen, in the 40-year range.

The literature, it says they can reach up to 55 years old.

We need to, you know, study these fish as much as possible, learn their life history, and so we'll be able to protect these fish for years to come.

>> MILLS: And it's a critically important sport fish.

>> STOKES: Oh, yes.

It's worth millions of dollars to the state's economy.

It's our number-one sought-after sport fish.

This is gonna be a lot of fun, because we generally don't deal or work with large fish, and these are quite large.

So, it's gonna be exciting to get out there and catch these fish.

>> MILLS: I can't wait.

>> STOKES: It's gonna be great.

♪♪ >> MILLS: Now, this is part of a much bigger study that involves colonization of a saltwater impoundment, or pond.

And it involves University of South Carolina Beaufort, Waddell Mariculture Center in South Carolina DNR, and also The LowCountry Institute.

And USCB has looked at what zooplankton and crabs and small fish have come in the pond to get it ready.

So, here's our fearless team from University of South Carolina Beaufort.

And we thought it'd be good to take sort of a before picture, because I think these guys are gonna look quite different after this process.

♪♪ Okay, so here's a red drum.

Pretty good size one.

Let's see if we can...get him out.

So, what a magnificent fish.

We want to get this one right in the tank as quick as we can.

But you see where they get the redfish name.

Beautiful kind of a -- sometimes a red, but more often kind of a gold or silver color.

So, let's get this guy up into the tank.

♪♪ Boy, they are strong.

They're awesome, strong fish.

>> STOKES: This is a black drum.

It's got kind of an interior mouth.

He likes to feed on crustacean, so he stays near the bottom.

They can stay in deep water, shallow water.

Lot of people like to catch 'em.

They love crabs.

They use sometimes a half a crab or more to feed on -- >> MILLS: So, they have really powerful jaws to crunch it up, crustaceans and such.

How much do you think this fish weighs, Al?

>> STOKES: Oh, he's probably a good 30 pounds, 25, 30 pounds.

>> MILLS: And I notice these spectacular spines right here.

>> STOKES: Oh, yeah, and they'll get you, too.

[ Laughs ] >> MILLS: So, this guy's going in this tank and then we're gonna move him to a travel tank, and then off he'll go.

>> STOKES: We just rinse him off here and get any hydrogen sulfide that might be in the tank or got in his gills, clean him up here.

It's high-oxygenated water.

Move him to his transportation trailer, and then he'll be out of here shortly.

♪♪ >> MILLS: This is beautiful.

>> STOKES: Just sit him in the edge.

>> MILLS: Just sit him in the edge.

Oh, my gosh.

Look at how pretty this fish is.

>> STOKES: Nice spot on the tail.

>> MILLS: Beautiful red-gold color and that great spot.

>> STOKES: Look how white -- Look how white the bottom of the fish.

>> MILLS: And this is an absolutely favorite sport fish.

This is -- >> STOKES: Yeah, this is what people really go after.

>> MILLS: I understand why.

>> STOKES: What a beautiful fish.

>> MILLS: Good job catching that, guys.

These guys just caught the big red of the day, I think.

This animal is massive, so we want to real quick get him in a tank, but we can get a better look at him.

That is a massive red drum.

♪♪ And look at this, this animal.

This is one of the biggest red drum I've ever seen.

That is -- We want to get him -- Let's go ahead and get him right in the tank.

It looks like he's -- Boy, that's a big fish.

How much do you think this weighs?

>> MAN: Ooh, I'd say at least 50 or 60 pounds.

>> MILLS: [ Laughs ] That is a big red drum.

Let's see if we can -- We've got him rinsed off, now we can get him to the main tank.

Oh, that water's nice and cold.

Boy, that is... [ Laughs ] ...a beautiful fish.

Okay, so you guys remember the before picture.

This is the after picture.

So, the fish are all out of the pond, we're gonna run 'em back to their new impoundment, so we've got to get going.

But, guys, that was awesome.

Thank you so much for helping us out.

♪♪ So, we just released some beautiful red drum, and Claire Thompson, a student from University of South Carolina Beaufort, has been doing research here to see if this is a good place for these fish to go, right?

>> THOMPSON: Yes.

We've been taking water samples, which will count the number of phytoplankton in the water, which they're the bottom of the food chain.

Some minnows, weed those, which we're about to check to see how many we have here.

And then the larger fish, weed those, and so on and so forth.

>> MILLS: Oh, wow.

Looks like a bunch of mudminnows, huh?

>> THOMPSON: Mm-hmm.

>> MILLS: Well, this is a great example of research collaboration.

We've got Waddell Mariculture Center, we've got University of South Carolina Beaufort, we've got LowCountry Institute.

It's a good deal.

♪♪ My good friend Whit Gibbons has been studying cottonmouths for the past many, many years, and he's written numerous scientific papers and popular articles on 'em.

And he's agreed to take us out looking for cottonmouths today.

Whit, welcome.

>> GIBBONS: How are you?

Good to see you.

>> MILLS: Good to see you again.

And I have to say, I actually met Whit when I was 10 years old.

And Whit let me borrow some minnow traps that I used to do kind of a survey of the fish and reptiles and amphibians in my own neighborhood.

And I ended up working for Whit for 21 years at the Savannah River Ecology Lab.

So, we've had some great field adventures together, haven't we?

>> GIBBONS: We sure have.

>> MILLS: So, tell me, what are we up to today?

>> GIBBONS: Well, I think today, what we're gonna do is test the -- test cottonmouths.

In other words, we're gonna show that -- I hope we will show that when you approach a cottonmouth, just out in the wild, and stand next to it, that they do not -- they have a very bad reputation.

>> MILLS: They do.

People think they're just horrible.

>> GIBBONS: Right, and that's because they open their mouth, give a threat display, but they're just saying, "Leave me alone."

I'm wearing what I'm hoping -- what are snake-proof boots.

And we'll walk up to the cottonmouths, stand next to it.

>> MILLS: I'd like to point out I'm wearing kind of flimsy rubber boots.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, you are, yeah.

You can try it, too, for the small ones, maybe, huh?

>> MILLS: You can do the stepping on.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, and then I would nudge the cottonmouth and have it start crawling away, and then I would step gently -- Don't want to hurt it -- but just enough to hold it down, stand on its back.

And then the third thing, this is the fun part, is then we let that one go, and then we catch it.

You catch it with "the hand."

>> MILLS: This is, I might add, the same mechanical hand that we used a long time ago.

>> GIBBONS: Yes, it is.

It's the same one.

>> MILLS: I don't think it's changed much.

And this won't hurt the snake, but it does -- >> GIBBONS: No, it doesn't hurt it.

It's very soft.

Well, it's a leather glove.

And you just grab the snake.

>> MILLS: I like the watch.

I think that's a nice touch.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, the time hasn't changed, actually.

Even then, only about one out of four or five will even bite, even when picked up.

But what it shows is, that's why a lot of cottonmouth bites are to the hand, because people, for whatever reason, I don't know, pick them up.

>> MILLS: Well, the overwhelming majority of people that are bitten by venomous snakes are either trying to kill it or catch it or something.

>> GIBBONS: That's right, or do something they don't need to be doing.

>> MILLS: Generally, if we leave them along, they leave us alone.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, right.

Exactly right.

>> MILLS: Well, this is my kind of trip.

This is gonna be fun.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, it'll be fun.

Let's see what we can find.

Tony, I think some of these -- these pools like this around the edges might be good, don't you think?

♪♪ >> MILLS: Whit, here's one right here.

So, let's -- >> GIBBONS: Okay.

All right, so... >> MILLS: I'll let you proceed with the protocol.

>> GIBBONS: You hold that.

Oops.

Oops.

Don't go away.

Sometimes they try to get away.

That's one of the most common things they do, is they try to get away.

>> MILLS: Yeah, it's a little -- a little different than what most people say.

>> GIBBONS: I'm gonna maybe have to -- I'm gonna step on him first.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to stand beside him.

>> MILLS: And, again, real gently so you don't hurt the snake.

>> GIBBONS: Right.

Okay, I'm standing on top of him.

And you can see, he's more interested in just trying to get away.

>> MILLS: God, you'd think he'd bite with your foot on him like that.

>> GIBBONS: I'm not hurting him.

I'm just...just holding him so he can't crawl away.

>> MILLS: In the research you did, this was -- this was what was common, right?

So, very often, this is -- >> GIBBONS: Yes, this is nearly always what they did, almost always.

He's not trying to bite.

Uh, now, this is not to say that if you stepped on a cottonmouth, there might be an occasion once in awhile that one would turn around and bite, but most of the time, they would not.

Okay, then our next step was to pick 'em up by hand like somebody might decide to do for some unknown reason.

This is where... And even here, look at that.

It's not biting at all.

He just wants to get away.

>> MILLS: I just glanced at the snake.

It looks like it's a female.

I'm going by the -- the tail.

>> GIBBONS: Uh-huh.

>> MILLS: [ Laughs ] It's getting closer and closer.

At eye level, it's a little more intimidating.

But it looks like it's a female.

And, boy, it is not eliciting any kind of aggression at all.

Not showing any aggression at all.

>> GIBBONS: Look at that.

>> MILLS: Boy, look at the -- look at the head on this thing.

Big viper head, pit viper head.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, look at that.

>> MILLS: This is pretty typical coloration, isn't it?

>> GIBBONS: Absolutely.

Yeah, for -- Some of the big ones get black, as you know, but some of the big ones stay this kind of olive color with banding.

>> MILLS: And, again, not a banded water snake.

Huge wedge-shaped head.

And just a thick head, too.

You know, they're really, really very different than the water snakes are.

So, Whit, what is the reality on cottonmouths?

I mean, they have this horrible reputation.

>> GIBBONS: 'Course, this is a probability situation, but most of 'em are not gonna -- they're not gonna attack you.

They're not gonna come across the swamp trying to bite you.

>> MILLS: Yeah, I think that's this misconception that these animals just come racing towards you and latch onto your leg and you just don't see that.

>> GIBBONS: I think it's that -- that apparent -- What gives the appearance of aggressive behavior is really defensive behavior.

They open their mouth and say, "Hey, leave me alone."

And if you'll notice when they do open their mouth and you get up close, unless they're gonna bite, they don't have their fangs even revealed.

They're just saying, "Hey, here's a --" >> MILLS: 'Cause like other pit vipers, those fangs flip into position and can fold out... >> GIBBONS: That's right.

>> MILLS: ...when they're ready to bite.

>> GIBBONS: So, um... >> MILLS: I think we've given this guy probably [laughs] enough of a test, and, boy, this is great cottonmouth habitat.

This is just classic habitat.

>> GIBBONS: it is, isn't it?

Yeah.

>> MILLS: Really pretty place.

♪♪ >> GIBBONS: Oh.

Oh.

Oh.

Right here, right here.

>> MILLS: Wow, this one's really running, isn't it?

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, he's trying to get away.

Come here, come here, come here.

Hey, like I said, they try to get away if they can, and they -- this is an open area that apparently, he's -- I don't know if we'll even have a chance to stand next to him because he's trying to get away.

>> MILLS: [ Chuckles ] Little less of a pattern on this one.

So, you've been standing next to him.

I mean, he certainly has an opportunity to bite if he wants to.

And you are sure those snake boots are snakebite-proof, correct?

>> GIBBONS: Uh, I hope so.

I really do.

Um... >> MILLS: You want to try stepping on this one lightly and see -- Okay, well, that one elicited a strike.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah, but we've been pestering him.

>> MILLS: I'd like to see -- You know, when -- I like to see that gaping behavior.

You notice the tail rattling, too, so -- >> GIBBONS: Yeah, the tail's rattling.

>> MILLS: Lot of snakes actually do that.

>> GIBBONS: And you can smell him, too.

You can tell just by his posture that he's ready to strike now.

>> MILLS: Well, and, again, we've kind of surrounded him.

>> GIBBONS: See how he's swelling up?

Look at his body.

Um, and he's probably out here, 'cause they eat fish, little fish or big fish -- This one could eat a bigger fish -- frogs, other snakes.

They're very, very, really cannibalistic.

They'll eat other cottonmouths.

>> MILLS: I remember you and I, when we found a roadkill red-bellied water snake.

>> GIBBONS: That's right, we did.

>> MILLS: And we left it there, and we were on our way back to get it on the way back.

>> GIBBONS: And the cottonmouth was out eating it.

>> MILLS: It was smelling and dead, remember?

It was all rotten.

>> GIBBONS: It was a roadkill, yeah.

>> MILLS: That's absolutely incredible.

>> GIBBONS: So, they will eat roadkill.

They'll eat mammals.

They'll eat birds.

They eat other snakes, uh... >> MILLS: And there's -- there's even a population of these, right, that feeds largely on disgorged fish in a bird... right?

>> GIBBONS: In Florida, yeah.

Seahorse Key, sure enough.

I think you and I both will tell people, Tony, people should not mess with these animals.

They're very dangerous.

They're pretty docile most of the time.

They obviously, once you pester them, they can -- >> MILLS: Well, they're like a lot of things.

They are good at protecting themselves if they need to.

>> GIBBONS: This is clearly an animal to be not feared, but to be respected.

>> MILLS: Well, Whit, obliviously, we've kind of harassed this snake enough.

But so, how -- What do people -- If people encounter a snake, obviously, they're not gonna do the protocol we just did.

How do they keep from getting bit?

>> GIBBONS: Oh, I think you see a snake, you stop, back up if you need to, if you're too close, and just enjoy him.

>> MILLS: Well, and this is a good point.

I mean, we're very close to it.

We're still out of striking range.

And cottonmouths have a right to be here just like anything else.

It's unfortunate they can hurt us, but they have a role in nature and ecological niche that they fit into.

>> GIBBONS: Absolutely.

>> MILLS: Well, Whit, I appreciate you letting us hang out with you today.

This is a beautiful place, and we saw some great stuff.

>> GIBBONS: Yeah.

Sure enough.

♪♪ >> MILLS: Trying to get away from people.

>> MURPHY: Let's see what we can find down here.

This is what I've been looking for, Tony.

>> MILLS: Here we are, an alligator nest.

Wow, and, boy, that's a good one, isn't it?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, it is.

>> MILLS: We need to be a little bit careful.

Mom should be somewhere nearby, right?

>> MURPHY: Yeah.

What they'll do is they'll come out and walk over this nest.

And when they hear the young vocalize, they'll go ahead and open it up and let the young out.

>> MILLS: Looks like a dinosaur nest.

>> MURPHY: She's been -- She's an older female.

She's been nesting in here for a long time.

>> MILLS: Well, I mean, we obviously don't want to hurt the eggs or the hatchlings, but can we kind of carefully go through here and make sure there are eggs in it?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, we can check this.

This late in incubation, it's not gonna do any harm.

>> MILLS: Tom, I noticed there's a pretty good path right there.

>> MURPHY: Yeah, I was planning on you being in this path and me on the other side.

>> MILLS: Yeah, let's keep Tom right, and be sure -- You let me know if she comes.

>> MURPHY: I'll let you know if I hear any hissing.

>> MILLS: Show me the best way to do this.

>> MURPHY: Yeah, eggs are usually in the top third.

>> MILLS: Okay, and I'm gonna be really, really careful.

>> MURPHY: Usually right, pretty much in the center.

>> MILLS: I just felt an egg.

I'm pretty sure.

I'm gonna keep it in the same position.

>> MURPHY: When they first lay the eggs, Tony, it's, you know, real leathery, like you'd expect of a reptilian egg.

But when you get this one out, you realize that it's almost crystalline, like -- >> MILLS: Oh, yeah, they feel like a chicken egg.

They really do.

I'm gonna keep it in the same position, and there we go.

>> MURPHY: Yep.

>> MILLS: Boy, they're -- Feels like the surface of the egg is starting to almost crack up a little bit.

>> MURPHY: Yeah, when they started incubating these in captivity, they washed 'em off, and they found they wouldn't hatch.

So, all that growth on there gets into the cracks of the egg and actually starts to break it open, so it makes it easier for the hatchlings to get out.

>> MILLS: So, that probably means these are on their way.

>> MURPHY: Yeah, yeah, these are -- got to be close to hatching.

>> MILLS: And, obviously, we're not gonna pull this -- we're not gonna pull this whole nest open, but just ballpark, how many eggs are in here?

>> MURPHY: On average, 44.

>> MILLS: Wow.

Ballpark.

[ Laughs ] So, 44 eggs, and what's the most you've ever heard of?

>> MURPHY: Oh, I think they've found nests that had 70 eggs in 'em.

>> MILLS: Wow.

And then as few as 28.

Something like that.

>> MURPHY: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tony, these are probably less than a week from hatching.

>> MILLS: Oh, it just chirped.

[ Hatchling chirping ] Oh, my.

>> MURPHY: Yeah.

>> MILLS: This egg is actually chirping.

Oh, my gosh.

I mean, it's almost hatching in my hands... >> MURPHY: Yep.

>> MILLS: ...which is [laughs] Which is a little bit exciting.

Oh, how cool is that?

So, that means these are -- >> MURPHY: Yeah, they're days away from hatching.

>> MILLS: Oh, man.

So, what they'll do is use, like you said, that egg to slice through this, and then how long do they stay -- I mean, how long does it take?

The hatching process, how long does it take?

>> MURPHY: Well, it's usually 65 days or a little bit more of incubation.

And then over a period of a couple of days, the clutch will come out.

>> MILLS: Anyway, so I'm gonna put this back in, and then we're just gonna cover 'em back up.

And it sounds like we'd better [Laughs] move on out of here.

>> MURPHY: Of course, the fact that the female stays around the nest provides protection for the nest.

And a good mom like this one, she's real experienced, will protect this nest, and then she'll protect the young, even after they hatch for probably the first two years.

>> MILLS: So, I think we need to get out of here now, but what I want to do is come back to this nest in a week or so, maybe?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, I think these hatchlings will probably be out and about in less than a week.

>> MILLS: Oh, man, this is really cool.

>> MURPHY: All right, let's see if we can find our way out of here.

♪♪ >> MILLS: Well, here we are, two days later, and obviously, Mom has been here and opened up the nest, huh, Tom?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, it's pretty clear that when you were handling the eggs two days ago, they were starting to chirp.

And what she's doing is she's coming over top of the nest, and when she hears that chirping sound, that's her cue to open it up.

And you can see she opened it up towards water so that those young ones have a ramp to run right down into the water and be safe.

>> MILLS: Well, I think we ought to creep down and see if we can find some babies.

>> MURPHY: All right.

>> Again, we need to keep an eye out for Mom.

But let's see what we can find.

>> MURPHY: Let's see what's going on, yeah.

>> MILLS: And sure enough, Tom, I see some babies.

>> MURPHY: Yeah.

>> MILLS: Boy, they're so cryptic.

I mean, they -- You'd think that they would really stand out with that bold pattern.

But here's a couple that just popped up right here.

>> MURPHY: The stripes down there, you know, it kind of breaks up the silhouette, so it doesn't -- doesn't ever look like an animal.

>> MILLS: I notice they still have some material attached to 'em.

Well, of course, they just hatched, so they must've come out last night maybe.

>> MURPHY: Most likely.

>> MILLS: So, these animals will grow to, if they're females, eight feet long, possibly, and males 10 feet long, huh?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, regularly.

So, they're increasing their body weight, you know, hundreds of times.

By doing that, they're actually, you know, foraging on all different types of prey, so they're utilizing a lot of the different resources, just because they're small, then medium, and then large size.

>> MILLS: It's important to point out that you've got be careful around alligators.

We don't think Mom's nearby.

Of course, we're being very careful.

And, Tom, different moms have different sort of temperaments, right?

>> MURPHY: Yeah, exactly.

In all the nests we go up to, some are very attentive and will come up and hiss and snap their jaws and do all kinds of things.

Others you don't even see, but they're obviously there.

>> MILLS: I like that term "attentive."

I mean [Laughs] That's a nice way of saying that they're around and protecting their young.

>> MURPHY: Yeah, I mean, most people would probably say they're aggressive, but that's not really the case.

I mean, they're protecting the young, and that's not -- I mean, they're not looking at you as a food source, they're looking to protect their young.

>> MILLS: Exactly.

Just doing what they're supposed to be.

Well, Tom, it's been a real treat.

I sure appreciate you sharing your research with us.

>> MURPHY: Well, it was my pleasure, Tony, and we'll be following up with these guys and looking at the sex ratio of these hatchlings, and then following them through as they grow up and see how that sex ratio may change.

>> MILLS: Well, this is exciting stuff.

Each one of these little Eastern king snakes was hatched in captivity, and the parents came from right here in these woods.

So, each one of these snakes has been marked with a cohort mark, a year mark.

And that lets us know that if we catch one of these snakes again, what year it was released.

And I'll tell you what's really exciting, is I've already gotten several recaptures, so I know that some of these snakes are surviving.

And one of the questions with Eastern king snakes -- This is a species, by the way, that's declining throughout much of its range -- is can they be raised in a lab, and will they survive in captivity if captured, raised, and released?

Now, I'm gonna let these guys go right here.

These are great woods for king snakes.

So, I think there's a good change I'm gonna see one of these little guys again.

You know, a lot of local researchers have done extensive studies on our habitats and the plants and animals that live in them.

But there is so much more to learn and so many wonderful discoveries awaiting us.

Thanks for joining us on "Coastal Kingdom."

♪♪