>> Welcome to WGVU'’s Decision 2022, making certain your vote counts here.

We will provide you the voter with information about casting ballots in person at the polls or by absentee ballot.

We will go over the basics of the election process and discuss safety measures, making sure elections are secure, transparent, fair and accurate.

Those are words I've heard more than just a few times from our guest Lisa Posthumus Lyons, Kent County clerk.

>> How are you?

I'm great.

How are you?

Good!

You've been touring the county.

I am.

And I'm glad to see that.

I'm glad to see that the message is being received.

You've got the tag line down perfectly, but I have heard that if you take that from you, but >> there's a reason for that, right?

The suspicion that people have have about elections now after the last big presidential election, what's been taking place and how do you get that message out so that people say, yeah, you know what?

They are secure?

>> Yeah.

Well, its first I want to say that I love when people ask me questions about the election.

No questioning elections asking, you know, questioning the elections and seeking out information and and even questioning the outcome of elections.

Isn't this really isn't new?

We've definitely moved into uncharted territory with it being so prolonged outside of the outside of the legal avenues and processes that are in place to challenge election results.

And that would be no legal recounts, a court order recounts and different different legal avenues in the judicial system.

So, you know, I think both sides in in our in our history have had their moment of of uncertainty and questioning the elections.

So I kind of have viewed this is really an opportunity to educate the public about the process, because I really believe the republic is reliant upon public trust in the process.

But public trust in the process is reliant upon understanding the process and ensuring the integrity and security of that process.

And one of the key ingredients to that really is transparency.

I think transparency is the key in all of it.

>> And you, you touch on history there and we can all agree.

No election is perfect.

Whether it's a hand count or a computer tabulator.

It's never going to be perfect.

But it does need to reach a certain right where mistakes of the upper center to okay.

But it's you want to make sure it's it's contained to that.

>> Yeah, our elections, especially because we're a home-rule state.

We're Michigan's really unique in that.

You know, it's not run.

Elections are run centrally by the secretary of state or really even by by me at the county, their run at the precinct level at the at the jurisdiction level by our friends and our neighbors there.

They're run by bipartisan individuals who are working the precincts and absentee counting boards.

And and admittedly, we're all human.

There is always an element of of some human error that that takes place in any endeavor.

And elections are no different.

But what's really important then because we're human and we we can sometimes air what is really critical is the checks and balances that we have in place in our law and our best practices here in Michigan to make sure that those errors are discovered that there are addressed.

>> And and that people can have confidence in an accurate in a secure election.

And that's the audit process, right?

You talked about the legal process as well.

So you can challenge and there can be audit's and recently in Gaines Township because somebody had infiltrated a part of this system.

You conducted a recount.

>> Current well, so there's multiple checks and balances at every process.

Every a stage of the process we're talking.

So audits are certainly a part of that and know those come into play.

They're kind of the last the last component of the post election process, more of a more of a verification.

But the checks and balances we have pre election that we have during and for voting and then post election really combine to to make sure that this these elections are are they're transparent and they're accurate and all of these things, all these checks and balances within the process.

Again, it's the transparency is key.

You know, we roll out the red carpet in Kent County.

We encourage, you know, I will I will.

I love to tell people about the process, but you can trust me, but don't take my word for it, come and see it for yourself.

And so they're subject to open meetings act.

And we we post notices, we put the schedule on our Web site and it's really, really important.

We're in the throes.

You know, we're let were around 2 weeks, a little over 2 weeks out from the election.

But we've been we've been working and preparing for 4 weeks to months for this election.

The print pre-election testing as one of those critical components.

That's where all of our local jurisdictions, our top tips in our cities, well test every one of our tabulators, all of our voting equipment to make sure that the tabulators are functioning properly, that they are zeroed out before the polls open on Election Day and the ballots are cast.

We test our election management system to make sure that the programming that's done in my office of the ballots in the in the tabulators make sure that that's functioning.

And and they're all running on on the on the right cylinders.

So, again, open meetings.

Those are going on right now in our jurisdictions throughout Kent County and jurisdictions throughout the state.

And in the meantime, we're all so busy training our election inspectors.

I said they're run by our friends and our neighbors.

Election administration is truly non partisan endeavor.

But it's run by bipartisan election workers from the Republican Party, from the Democratic Party to help ensure some some of that accountability.

That's another check and balance we have.

And so we're training.

My office is responsible for training about 1500 of the 2000 election inspectors there.

They're technically called to make sure that that they're ready to go on Election Day and that our voters have a a great experience at the polls and that they're prepared for the absentee counting board because it's a totally they're very different process ease you've been at this for how long?

So I took office as clerk in January of 2017.

This will be my 20th election so.

>> So enjoy it a little.

Let's go back to changes.

Changes have occurred over time, right?

I mean, we can look at the way we vote.

You can vote in person.

That's always been the standard.

But also now there was always absentee voting.

But that has been expanded.

Sure to.

How is it changed?

How has it impacted elections?

>> There have actually there's been several changes that have taken place since I took office and we'll start in 2017.

One of the first major changes that that took place in that first year was the state every county in the state moving to implementing new election equipment, different elections, just different election systems.

And that was it was a really important thing that had to had to happen because our our equipment at that time was getting old, antiquated, outdated.

I was we were starting to see some equipment failure.

So we statewide every county selected one of 3 certified and vetted election election systems and those began to be implemented.

Then you go into 2018 where this is the first statewide election, the first county wide election we had with this new equipment and on that ballot.

As you said, we're talking about with 2018 voters.

Voters overwhelmingly passed a proposal 3 which implemented a whole host of of election changes in the Constitution.

One of them being no reason absentee voting.

And we have we have seen that really have an impact to what degree to what degree it was simply just the proposal, 3 provision of no reason absentee.

I can't quite qualify because the first statewide election we had with no reason absentee voting was conducted during a pandemic in 2020.

And so so, you know, as we've been seeing for cycles even before 2018, when when no reason absentee voting passed, voters were more and more and more taking advantage of that opportunity to cast a ballot via absentee.

And then, you know, you there's a huge spike in 2028, simply part partly because of the new provision and partly because of the pandemic.

And so there's definitely a lot of changes we've seen.

We've seen a lot of increased participation and absentee voting.

We've seen a lot of increased interest in how that process works and questions about making sure their vote counts and that secure.

And so we're going into this November where I expect I don't expect we'll see much below 50% absentee voting versus in-person voting.

So will that that was kind of that was kind of the percentage we saw in the primary in August as well.

>> When will you count those ballots?

I know that I've been an issue in the last election which delayed results, but we have a change now when it sort of that.

>> Absent that, I think it's really important to differentiate because we all see a lot of national media and and no media stories talking about early voting and voting by mail.

And and, you know, you'll see that coming into Michigan.

It's it's time that early voting has started.

It's really important to differentiate that Michigan is not an early voting state.

We're an absentee voting state but we're not an early voting state.

Early voting is different from Michigan.

In that case they begin tabulating votes and counting votes prior to Election Day.

We don't do that in Michigan.

We count votes on Election Day.

So before the polls are before the polls open, a new new law has been enacted.

Absentee voting counting boards can begin pre processing these ballots.

And what that means is they can they make sure the signature on the envelope matches the signature that we have in the voter file so that we can we can except in count that ballot, the open the ballots, take it out of the outside envelope, maintain it in the secrecy sleeve and compare the ballot.

Number 2, the number that was issued in the voter file.

So that's kind of pre processing to try and save some time on the front end.

It's newer.

As I mentioned it, you know, the jury still out on that.

That's really an effective an affective measure in terms of cost benefit with the timing with the time.

But we don't begin tabulating and running those ballots through until the polls open at 7 o'clock on Election Day.

And then they'll continue to count those absentee ballots until until all of them have been tabulated and then they'll be reported.

>> And then you've got the ballots, the phone to the drop box.

>> So that's another thing.

It's it's interesting, the attention on drop boxes since 2020, they're they're really not new.

They're certainly not new to Kent County, but because of I think the pandemic and more interest in absentee voting, they were certainly much more promoted and therefore utilized beginning in 2020.

So absentee ballot have got to be returned in deposited into your jurisdictions, Dropbox or return to your local clerk by 8 o'clock on election night.

By the time the polls close in order for your absentee ballot to count.

So that's a really important important thing that I want voters to make.

Sure they know postmarked is postmark.

Doesn't count.

Make sure you get an absentee ballot returned before the polls close on Election Day.

>> For anybody who questions the process of absentee or the Dropbox, how do you respond to that?

>> I think it's really important again.

Drop boxes aren't new.

I think what we've seen over the last couple years will help just the attention on it kind of helps to make sure we're being vigilant to ensure that those drop boxes are secure.

I was pleased to see that the legislature as part of this pre processing pre processing the measure also implemented some security measures like making sure they are bolted down, making sure the drop boxes are are locked, making sure that there's, you know, security footage on on these newer drop boxes.

And but I think it's also really important is maintaining maintaining a long of activity with those drop boxes.

So part of that is a requirement that only the clerk or the deputy or a sworn staff member who is taking the oath of office can remove those ballots and they have to document document what time, what Dave, who the staff person was and how many ballots were in there.

So I think that's kind of an important measure.

Other the other things I think is important to mention with absentee voting, Michigan has always been able to boost that we do not send automatic ballots out to people in order to get an absentee ballot.

Voters must submit an application that signed.

And I think that is a really important security measure because that signed application is verified with the with the signature we have on file so before and a bill is even issued.

We're checking that signature to make sure.

And then on the back end after an individual, his has voted and they send their absentee ballot back.

They're required to then sign the outside envelope of the absentee ballot.

And that when it really is returned, is also verified.

So there's there's signature verifications on both ends, which I think is very important in the critical thing is that we just don't send absentee ballots out without assigned application.

>> When I vote in person, what can I expect?

Any changes what?

>> What should I expect?

Sure, I'm not we we do a really great job here in Kent County, making sure that we have that we have enough election inspectors, people working people working our elections, both both parties being present and available.

And that's that's not just to our credit in promoting that.

It's to the local clerks credit and it's to the voters credit for wanting to be a part of their election.

So I'm really grateful that we have that here in Kent County, where we're never left wanting for more election inspectors will take them.

But where we are always well staffed when a voter comes to the polls, they will be met by.

They'll be met by the election inspectors and they have their ID ready to show.

If they don't have ID with them, they will.

They've Michigan, a law, allows them to sign an affidavit that swearing they they're testing.

They are who they say they are.

And that's part of the application when they come in and then their issue the ballot.

So you get voter will be issued the ballot after showing the after filling out the application showing their ID or signing the affidavit and they'll go to their voting booth and make their selections.

Once that once that happens, they'll go to the tabulator.

Know those ballots are kind of put the secrecy sleeve that have the ballot stub, which has a number on it.

That corresponds to the number of that ballot is entered into the voter's name in the poll.

But so again, we can we can say, OK, this individual did vote.

They did receive a ballot.

This is what ballot number it was.

But the secrecy of the ballot is really, really fundamental and foundational so that you vote is is public information how you vote is not.

So we take that ballot stub.

We maintain that.

And then the voter puts there to ballot inside the tabulator and they'll see on the tabulator that it's counted.

It will not not just that up.

One on if there's a problem that had later will also tell them that.

So if they made a mistake, they can go back and spoil their that ballot.

Get a new one, go through it again.

>> And the polling stations will be secure.

People can feel safe there.

I mean, clearly, you know, tensions are running running a little high with politics right now.

But if if you show up and you just want to vote and make that part of your civic duty, we feel we feel comfortable when you walk in.

>> Absolutely.

I want voters to know that it is safe and they are secure not only our elections secure, but but they are they they can be as well.

You know, we've seen a lot of we've heard a lot of tension seen a lot of a lot of things going on, threats being made, you know, throughout the country.

I tend to just be an optimist when it comes to elections.

I think part of that is here in West Michigan that it tends to be more culture.

Certainly it's but certainly it's been it's been a challenging 2 years.

We've we've dealt with with folks that that may be less than polite or or or so, you know, things like that.

But I want I want to be part of I want to be part of the part of the solution and part of the assurance that voters have in kind of toning some of that rhetoric down based on what we've experienced here in Kent County, all of our local clerk's are election workers myself, my staff, our team.

We just haven't we have not seen any threats of violence, anything like that.

And I really think it's important for me as as a leader and an ambassador for elections to differentiate the challenges that we've been facing and some of the some of the tension and and and kind of controversial conversations, things like that differentiate that with bona fide real threats to safety because it says it is it is very different.

And it's just something I have no reason to expect here in Kent County.

That's not to say we're not prepared every election.

This is going back to prior to 2020 every election.

We work with the Kent County Sheriff's Office.

There's always a plan, an election day plan in place to make sure that the voters are safe to make sure that our election workers and our local and county clerk's offices and staff are safe.

So we treat this election just like we treated November of 2020, just like we treated every election before that we are prepared.

But I can I am very confident in in Kent County, thus the safety and the security of our voters, our election workers and election officials.

>> You and your staff have done a great job preparing for the upcoming election and taking the time to walk voters through the process.

This is a document that you can find at access can T S and this is your elections 101, information document and you really do walk people through any questions that they might have anything we haven't touched on in this conversation that's in here that you think?

>> Yeah, I think there's a couple other things.

So we kind of talked a lot about the pre-election preparations that were doing the pre-election checks and balances.

We talked a lot about absentee voting morning in the polls and some of those checks and balances but postal.

But I think it's important.

We want to talk about post-election process as well.

But paper paper paper, Michigan has paper ballots, some states that there are several states.

I think that don't utilize paper ballots.

But but for us in Michigan, I just think it's one of the one of the most old fashion under looked security measures we have in place because we can always go back to those ballots.

Always.

It's an it's whether to recount or something with the courts.

And they're frankly, just public documents.

If if voters are curious, they have the ability to to view those ballots.

And so I think it's really important that the voters understand how important paper is.

And we do duplicate all, you know, the paper tapes that show the election results from the tabulators, not just one copy 3 copies going 3 different places.

I really key component of the checks and balances.

Post election is our county campus that's open to the public.

We encourage everybody to calm.

I want you to see the thorough measures we take in balancing making sure every precinct balances with the number of ballots issued with a number of ballots cast the vote.

The number of votes received in each race on the tabulator versus the number of votes received that we reported it is a very thorough process.

And I think that campus alone gives, which would give voters the confidence that they need.

And then we have the final.

The final component is the audits which we touched on.

>> So for anybody who questions the tabulators themselves, the electronic equipment in the idea that this could be infiltrated, give me a sense and our viewers how this works so that it is safe and secure.

What what are some of the safety features that are built in?

>> We have so art are tabulators are programmed by my office to respond to certain ballot markings because we also program the ballot so that when when a voter marks a certain bubble, that tabulator, we program that to be able to recognize and respond to that to that bubble and and a portion that vote to the appropriate candidate.

So, you know, it's a it's a very tedious process to program ballots we have in Kent County because we have 250 precincts.

We have over, you know, over 250 ballots styles because of different school districts and things like that.

Different people in one precinct will get different ballots.

So they are also very we have we have security seals that have serial numbers again, that that are recorded in the poll.

But they're checked in the audit.

Things like that.

There's a there's a code that election workers need to know to be able to open the tabulator and get it running.

Same thing with it with it with closing down the polls and one of the most important things I want people to know about her tabulators are election equipment.

There is that neither the poll book the Electronic poll, but nor are tabulators are are connected to the Internet.

They remain.

So we have you know, we have a tabulator in each precinct.

We have thousands of precincts.

Each tabulator is separate from the other and separate from any any network, any central network.

And so we receive are, but we don't receive our results until the polls are closed.

That is shut down.

The tapes are printed.

The paper tapes are printed with the results and then those results are transferred to my office via a secure VPN.

So there's just a lot of things that we put in place to make sure that that this process is secure and that our equipment is properly functioning again.

We tested it.

We with the tests, we know what the results are supposed to be.

We're testing before the election.

And so when the tabulator tabulating the tape comes out, we see those results matched up to what we know to have supposed to be the results.

And that's how we know the machines are accurate and they're functioning.

>> And for more information, access can't dot com Kent County votes dot com.

This is a great document.

Thank you.

Give it a read, right?

Yes, absolutely right.

Lisa Posthumus Lyons, Kent County Clerk Register, thank you so much.

Thank you, Patrick.

And thank you for joining us on WGVU's Decision 2022.