(opening music) ♪ Welcome to "This Week in South Carolina".

I'm Gavin Jackson at the Statehouse in Columbia, where Governor Henry McMaster just concluded his eighth state of the state address.

And we're going to recap that address and look at more State House action with two of our favorite guests.

But first, we have a few highlights from his speech.

So take a look.

(applause) Governor Henry McMaster was before a joint Assembly of House and Senate lawmakers Wednesday evening to give his annual address that includes his priorities for the legislative session that runs through mid-May.

>> Three years ago, I signed into law the largest income tax cut in state history to drop the personal income tax rate from seven percent to six percent over a period of five years.

Our booming economy has created annual budget surpluses that have allowed us to accelerate these tax cuts faster than anticipated.

This year, I'm proposing that we cut the state's personal income tax rate again from six point two down to six percent, allowing taxpayers to keep an additional 193 and a half million of their hard earned money in their pockets instead of sending it to the state government.

Gavin> His priorities continue to be reducing taxes, increasing starting teacher salaries, and helping create more energy production to keep up with the demand in the growing state he has overseen since 2017.

Gov.

McMaster> Last week, Santee Cooper began the process of gauging the feasibility of, and the interest in restarting the construction of two abandoned nuclear reactors at the V.C.

Summer Nuclear station.

I believe that restarting these two reactors in South Carolina will not only help fuel our state's future power needs, but will also usher in a nuclear power renaissance across the United States, one that will spur nationwide investment in construction of new nuclear power generation that will provide America with ample, clean, resilient energy for the future and deter challenges to our national security.

Last year, the General Assembly was able to reach consistence on legislation.

That would have addressed many of our future energy needs, but we didn't finish.

We need this legislation.

We're running out of time.

I ask that you send this legislation to my desk so that I can sign it into law, and let's hurry.

(applause) Gavin> McMaster didn't acknowledge the fact that on Wednesday, he officially became the longest serving governor in the state's history.

He ascended from lieutenant governor back on January 24th, 2017, when then Governor Nikki Haley was confirmed by the United States Senate to serve as President Donald Trump's ambassador to the United Nations, and he's been elected to full terms in 2018 and 2022.

His message back in 2017 was similar and just as soaring as it was on Wednesday.

Gov.

McMaster> Forged in the crucible of incomparable natural beauty and nature's majestic forces, through the centuries, our people have striven, endured adversity, overcome challenges, created opportunities, built and prospered.

Gavin> While, he said the state is in superior financial shape with growing tax revenues and substantial reserves, he did not mention the $1.8 billion accounting discrepancy on state books that was overseen in part by Treasurer Curtis Loftis, that Senator Margie Bright-Matthews hammered on in the Democratic message.

>> The truth is, our economy can't be as robust as you've described, Governor.

Since our finance committee recently uncovered a $1.8 billion dollar discrepancy in our Treasury that ultimately led to the resignations of the comptroller general and the auditor.

Last year, Treasurer Loftis testified under oath that he knew where the 1.8 billion was, and that it had earned over $250 million dollars in interest.

Now, they say the 1.8 billion never even existed.

Imaginary money?

What is the truth?

Yet our leadership continues to support Treasurer Loftis, knowing that we cannot afford to entrust our state's financial resources to a politician who has proven he knows nothing about protecting and investing the people's money.

Gavin> Joining me on set now in the State House lobby is South Carolina Public Radio's Maayan Schechter and Associated Press Reporter Jeffrey Collins.

Welcome to you both.

Welcome to the State House, our temporary home, from January through May, if you will.

Jeffrey, we're here because we just heard the governor give his annual speech.

I want to get your initial thoughts on what he had to say, and especially the governor becoming the longest serving governor in our state's history, something I don't think he mentioned in his speech.

So humble of him.

Jeffrey Collins> He did not mention it at all.

There's no confetti cannons or banner that dropped or anything like that, you know.

But yes, today, Governor McMaster has spent eight years and five days in the governor's office, beating Dick Riley's record of eight years and four days.

Obviously got to do that because of he took the last two years of Nikki Haley's term.

But today's speech was not that unusual at all.

It was a typical McMaster state of the state speech.

It wasn't.

There wasn't any real big surprises.

There was things that he's already mentioned.

You know, there are things that he always mentions.

He wants more money to combat dog fighting, you know, which is one of his always chestnuts.

He wants to raise teacher salaries.

He wants to do more about conserving land, wants to make this the best place it can be for the businesses in this climate.

So, really it was typical a very typical kind of Henry McMaster speech.

Gavin> And, Jeffrey, we're three weeks into the legislative session wrapping up this month here.

What do you think the sense is?

I mean, we heard him unveil that budget, which he echoed tonight on Wednesday.

Do you think there's a lot of support for a lot of his initiatives, a lot of his priorities, especially when it comes to tax reform and some other big ticket items?

Jeffrey> Yeah, I think there are...as always, you know, he...collaborates as he would love to say with the legislature.

So they're going to be at least considering what he wants to do.

Now the devil is in the details.

I mean, you know, we talk about a tax cut, but they also want to spend money on education vouchers.

And that's something'S got to balance itself out in all that.

There's a lot of money that they're putting into those two things that they're going to have to figure out, well, does it come out of other places?

So that's going to be part of it.

And, but I do think that you'll see most of what he wants in some way, shape or form, get passed.

That's been kind of the tradition for the last several years.

Gavin> Yeah, and then Maayan kind of cutting to you and your takeaways from what the governor had to say tonight.

That speech, almost an hour long, pretty typical when it comes to these long speeches, his second to last speech, as well.

What were your takeaways?

Maayan> Very similar to Jeffrey's.

A lot of the issues that he talked about are issues that he has talked about in his previous state of the state speeches, but also in his executive budget.

Like, like Jeffrey mentioned, he talked about raising teacher pay, talked about money for land conservation.

He also talked about putting an S.R.O.

school resource officer in every single school, something that he has been beating the drum on time and time again and has really become his... his own issue.

He also talked about V.C.

Summer a little bit.

Look, there were a lot of things that he also did not mention that are issues that are facing the state.

He didn't talk about the South Carolina Department of Juvenile Justice, which is a huge issue that, budget writers, but also a lot of lawmakers are trying to dive more into and trying to get a handle on.

He did not talk about the $1.8 billion accounting error at all, which we have heard many times from the treasurer, Chris Loftis, but also state lawmakers, that this is not a bright spot for the state, but there was no mention of that.

Of course, everything is good in South Carolina, and I thought this was interesting.

We did not hear really about any of those kind of controversial red meat social issues.

Nothing on abortion.

We didn't hear anything about the trans-gender community, for example.

And so I think that, you know, says a little bit as the fact that look, he is not running for re-election, and he's got, you know, a couple more years left, but I thought it was interesting that he left that off the table.

Gavin> And since we are in the State House lobby, we get to have all the fun aspects of it, including the bells ringing for the House, because they're still in session right now dealing with some rules packages, some... some politicking going on, if you will.

Jeffrey, it seems to be a little bit of, some of those issues dealing with...the far right House Freedom Caucus, which, you know, obviously there's a super majority in the House of Representatives, but there's a little bit of a back and forth when it comes to some things like rules, like, different issues, but also interesting, like when Maayan was saying that we didn't hear a lot of those big controversial issues in the governor's speech tonight.

Jeffrey>...and it's funny that you mention that, this rules package is... they took it up about 2:00 p.m.

I think everybody figured it was going to be out of the way well before the 7 p.m. speech.

And they're still going.

So and that's, that's something I think the governor did not mention...is there are, there are, you know, factions right now in the Republican Party.

There's a primary looming in, you know, an open governor seat in 2026.

And, you know, there's the, you know, his legacy will probably be, at least in some ways, up for that.

I mean, you know, he will be asked to endorse somebody.

And then...and with most of the governor's races.

When you have someone that's been a well-liked incumbent, everyone will be trying to glom onto him, or perhaps in some cases not.

But, you know, it was very interesting that there wasn't that kind of red meat stuff, that it was more reflective that, you know, you mentioned again, what's South Carolina going to be like in 100 years, also reached back to the Revolutionary War, showed off the Walter Edgar History of South Carolina book that he takes everywhere these days.

So it was very reflective.

Maayan> And maybe the point of leaving that out was to... he talked about civility at the end, which I know maybe we'll talk more about, but talk about civility at the end.

And maybe that was really the approach with the speech.

You know, it's a brand new legislature in both the House and the Senate.

There's an opportunity for both Democrats and Republicans to get along.

And as we both all three of us know, McMaster has enjoyed a very good relationship with both political parties, here in the legislature, so- Gavin> -Yeah, and we're also in that legacy building phase of his, his tenure, his reign, if we should say, since he's been so long serving.

So you do want to maybe focus on the good and not so much the bad, because he did say during that speech that the state is in superior fiscal shape, which it is when we talk about revenue growth for the budget, when we talk about our our rainy day reserves.

We have plenty of money.

Some would say too much money.

We got to give it back and cut those taxes, like he's talking about, reducing the income taxes to six percent from six point two percent, but that being said, there's that $1.8 billion accounting discrepancy that is playing out right now in the State House, after we got that forensic audit back a couple of weeks ago.

So, Jeffrey, we were all in a subcommittee meeting in the House Ways and Means subcommittee today, where the Treasurer Curtis Loftis, testified and didn't exactly accept blame.

He did accept some blame for his office, but also know that other folks like the comptroller general, were mainly to blame for this discrepancy.

Again, no money missing here, no criminal activity detected, but still a very big flaw on the state's books.

Jeffrey> It's a matter of public trust, is what it comes down to.

I think both sides would tell you that.

I think Chris Loftis would say the problem is that, that the Senate is out to get him and that, you know, he's the one that has that should be allowed.

...he's speaking on behalf of his constituents in the public on the other side of things, the matter of public trust that you might hear, especially from the Senate, but from a number of lawmakers, is that it took somebody it took six or seven years for them to report that this was a problem to lawmakers, and it wasn't any of the three people involved in it.

It was the someone that took over after the comptroller general resigned, the new comptroller general, who ultimately brought it to their attention.

So, you know, we'll see how this shakes out.

I mean, there's calls for especially from Senate leadership for, you know, for Curtis Loftis, the treasurer, to resign.

I don't think the House is quite there yet, but I think we're going to have another month or two of trying to... to pull out all the threads on this and figure out exactly what happened and where the responsibility needs to lie.

Gavin> Yeah.

Maayan, it's on a separate track, it seems like with everything else going on when it comes to priorities for this session.

But we did hear from Democrat Senator Margie Bright- Matthews, who gave that Democratic message, that response to the governor's state of the state, basically, you know, really hammering on the treasurer and his responsibility, his role in all this and even saying that this is going to, estimated cost about $15 million more.

We're talking about that forensic audit.

We're talking about, legal fees, defense fees for the treasurer.

How do you see this playing out?

You were also in that House Ways and Means subcommittee hearing with the treasurer there, too.

It was very tense, but it was also very, informative in some ways.

Maayan> I mean, look, I think, again, echoing what Jeffrey said and what you've said, the Senate and the House are on two different tracks right now, but it is clear that the Senate leadership and maybe there's a few holdouts who aren't quite there on pushing the treasurer to resign, but it's clear, that Senator Larry Grooms, who's been really leading the Senate's investigation into that $1.8 billion dollar error and the one previous, the $3.5 billion dollar error, that, that he has the support of leadership, when he's talking about asking for Treasurer Curtis Loftis to resign.

Really, I think the big question mark is in the House right now.

Of course, the House has a different kind of issue.

They have so many more people and they have so many freshmen, particularly, Republican freshmen.

And so and, and look, you know, the Senate has made the point that they've been on this issue for, since last year, whereas the House is really starting to learn more about what's been going on.

So again, it's just been a bit slower in the House versus the Senate.

But I think at some point there will be some, middle ground.

What that looks like, I mean, I'm not quite sure yet.

Gavin> Yeah, it could be pretty messy too when those tracks collide.

And of course, we've heard the governor talk about this audit too.

He hasn't called for anything to happen.

But these recommendations outlined in that audit too be implemented.

Maayan> And I do think that's where we will see, the probably, the quickest consensus is the recommendations.

It does appear based on, of course, what we've heard in the Senate, but based on what we heard in the subcommittee today, that everybody agrees changes have to be made to every single office.

Gavin> Yeah.

Jeffrey, another thing we heard in the governor's speech tonight was talking about energy, energy generation in the state, this never ending need for more.

Some big supply, some big users in the state.

We're talking about data centers.

We're talking about advanced manufacturing in our state, Scott Motors up in Blythewood needs more energy once it gets fully online.

We're hearing more and more about that.

We're hearing more and more about another boondoggle in our state, V.C.

Summer.

We, keep hearing about folks trying to see if that nuclear site, the other two reactors that they were going to build, will eventually come back online.

What do you take away from this, when we keep hearing more about this need for energy and the movement on some of the legislation going through the State House right now, dealing with it.

Jeffrey> You're going to end up with an energy bill passed over here, but at the moment, the parameters of it are still unclear.

The Senate is still holding... both the Senate and the House are still holding hearings, listening to testimony, getting information.

I think that the consensus is that South Carolina needs more power.

I think the consensus is that we need to build more generation for power.

I think the consensus this is going to end up being that, you know, there needs to be some trimming back of regulation so these power plants can get on line a little bit quicker.

But again, it's the details, and you mentioned V.C.

Summer.

You know, the thought is that you can get maybe an Amazon or a Microsoft that wants to have a big, data farm to get that thing back up and running... Well actually, back up and running, get it running, period.

You know, because it's just basically some shells that have been rained on for a long time.

So the key to that, so that's a part of all this too, that you're going to have to consider, and it's funny that V.C.

Summer is back because, you know, there's a lot of optimistic talk about it.

But ultimately, once I think that people really begin to see this as a possibility, they'll have to be some very frank discussions, because there's a lot of people, especially in the Senate, that remember what all we went through, Gavin> We're still paying for.

>> Yeah.

and we'll still be paying for it a long, long, long time.

Gavin> And then we saw Santee Cooper also putting out requests for proposals to see what they want to do with that site.

So I mean it's very interesting to see that, that discussion come full circle.

You know, it was just such a knock down drag out fight when it came to what happened with that $9 billion boondoggle, not even ten years ago.

Right?

I mean, so it's fascinating to see us...come full circle, but you've been covering the State House for a long time, Jeffrey.

You know that nothing's ever gone, if you will.

Jeffrey> ...We were going to have our I-73 discussion (inaudible) Gavin> That's a throwback I haven't heard in a minute.

Jeffrey> Yeah, yeah.

Gavin> But, Jeffrey, I want to stick with you, too, because we're having another ongoing discussion, something that we've been talking about for some time at the State House, but it's really grown legs and that's the school, voucher bill debate.

We're seeing that play out in the Senate.

It's been going on since the first week of the State House when they got back in January here early this month.

Give us a little, update on that, what that bill does, what they want it to do, and if it's actually going to succeed once it starts moving its way through the process.

Jeffrey> Well, they decided to let the Senate take the first shot at this after the Supreme Court found the previous bill unconstitutional.

And so the part of the thought, you know, was he was using public money for private schools.

So to kind of get around that, the Senate's thought is we'll use money from the South Carolina lottery and put it towards these, private school scholarships.

So, at the moment, the Senate is working its way through the details.

It's been, made a couple of hiccups.

It hasn't, I think leadership would tell you if they're really being honest, it has gone a little slower than they thought.

And it's been a little stickier than they thought.

It's been a little more hard to get everybody on the same page.

But there will be a bill passed.

But the thing in the Senate, but then it goes over to the House.

House has its complete, its own complete, I won't say completely different ideas, but its own radically different ideas.

And so this bill, you know, we'll have to see how it comes together.

I mean, it may end up being what the House thinks and or I mean, you know, but that's probably one that we're going to wrap up in April and probably May, maybe even before that thing wraps up.

Maayan> I mean, I think just to add on, I think the goal is always, too, well the goal for a lot of the lawmakers is to get it back before the state Supreme Court so that they have the time to assess the argument.

You know, one other issue that has come up with, this argument of using education lottery numbers as both of you all heard in the state of the state is, the state's revenue, as far as education lottery dollars is going down.

I think the figure that was used was $32 million dollars down.

And so we've heard some concern from senators who are worried about what that means for current programs and then dipping into the general fund.

So again, you know, I agree it's going to come out of the Senate, but what it looks like from the House side is going to be probably different.

Jeffrey> And how does it play with an income tax cut?

I mean that there's a lot of moving parts and you're going to have to pay for that income tax cut too.

Maayan> Also, nobody has answered that question quite yet Gavin> Or even bigger, tax cuts as well, but also I guess that's why we're having this debate, this discussion and seeing legislation dealing with debit cards being used to purchase lottery tickets too, Get that back up, because I may not know about y'all, but I don't really have cash on me, but I do have a lot of plastic.

Maayan>...that was that was what the lottery officials testified about is that, yes, younger people are, don't carry cash anymore.

They have their debit cards.

And look, you know, I think, the older generation is I don't want to use the word phasing out, but, you know, they're getting older.

They want the younger folks to start playing the lottery.

And so they need to introduce options that maybe boost the revenue a little bit.

And debit cards clearly is the next best thing.

Gavin> You can't win if you don't play.

Right?

Maayan> That's right.

(Gavin laughs) Gavin> Not an endorsement.

Maayan, but we're talking about the budget.

We're talking about, finances and money coming in, and of course, like we heard the governor say, the state's in really good, good fiscal shape when it comes to that aspect of our books.

You were in a House Ways and Means subcommittee hearing this past week with S.C.D.O.T.

and their budget requests.

Infrastructure is always a big knee.

We even heard the governor talk about that.

More money for bridges to the tune of $100 million.

I think D.O.T.

got $200 million dollars.

last year to expedite bridge repairs, something that they say is critical.

What did you hear, from D.O.T.

officials when they were before that subcommittee?

Maayan> I think the... headline to me, it's just the amount of work that is being done right now in the state of South Carolina since the 2017 gas tax law is...astronomical.

And one of the things that Secretary Justin Powell, referenced over and over again is, look, you know, we were sort of in the hole for decades.

We did not have the revenue to do any of these kinds of projects that y'all wanted us to do.

We finally have the money, billions of dollars worth.

And so you are seeing roadwork on interchanges.

I mean, right here in Columbia.

Malfunction junction is a good one.

But so he talked a lot about that.

He talked a lot about how, you know, there were a lot of questions from lawmakers about congestion.

Some of the lawmakers are from areas of the state that are incredibly fast growing like Horry County.

And he said, look, that is a reality.

And that is a big question mark for a lot of things that the legislature is going to have to answer, which is how do you deal with the costs of things while celebrating the fact that your state is growing so fast?

So that was talked about.

And then, of course, I-95 came home.

Everybody's curious about I-95.

And Secretary Justin Powell did say that there are design plans in the works.

So it sounds like that project is moving along, but they're clear... clearly, very busy right now.

Gavin> Well, yeah, last year we did see a big announcement with the federal and state officials when it comes to replacing that bridge that spans Lake Marion on I-95 over there.

And, and that's a huge span.

We're talking about $175 million dollars.

So I remember this past week when we heard the news out of Washington dealing with this, federal grant, federal spending freeze, which lasted, I think, maybe a day or two.

It got a lot of people confused on different things.

And I was wondering personally what that meant for such big grants like that and infrastructure funding, especially when you hear, executive orders out of the White House dealing with pausing the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act, which has a lot to do with green energy generation in the state.

Electric vehicles.

We're talking about transportation.

Jeffrey, it seems like a very difficult dance to walk or to dance, like he said in this state, when it comes to EVs and green energy, something that we're investing heavily in here in the state, but also not very popular when it comes to certain Republican circles, even though we're in a Republican state.

Jeffrey> Yeah.

I mean, and that's something that's going to have to be addressed eventually, too.

I mean, you know, part of this...road boom is based on, you know, an increase in the gasoline tax.

Well, EVs don't take gasoline.

I mean, so, you know, if, if more people are using EVs, that's going to reduce that funding.

And, you know, part of the part of the boom and part of the, you know, 15, 20 year plan for D.O.T.

is having money still coming in.

So that's going to have to eventually be worked out is how do you have EV users pay their fair share when they don't pay, when they don't use gas and they don't pay a gas tax?

And I mean, you know, South Carolina added a million people between the year 20, 2000 and now.

And that's 20 percent.

And so...that's a lot of people out there on the roads.

Maayan> And I think that, just to add on real quick to what Jeffrey said, I do think that it's going to be the big question.

Like we talked about, what are the next 100 years going to look like?

But that to me is the biggest question for the state, which is we are a very fast growing state.

We're going to continue to grow very fast.

How do we handle that population?

And then the effects of that population also growing older as well?

Jeffrey> I was going to...

I was just looking to say but it's there growing older.

I mean, you know, it's high school enrollments to a certain extent are stable are going down while we're adding all these people.

So I mean...that's, and that's a big demographic shift.

Gavin>Yeah.

Dealing with housing, dealing with jobs, dealing with- Maayan> -health care.

Gavin> - a lot of different things all happening at the same time in our growing state.

These are growing pains I assume.

Jeffrey, we have about three minutes left, and I want to ask you just about how we've restarted executions in the state last year after a 12 year hiatus there because of, lethal injection drugs were not being able to be obtained.

We're...taping this on a Wednesday evening.

It will air Friday evening if things go the way they are planned currently, there will already have been the third execution since these have been restarted.

You've covered these.

You've been there.

Can you tell us how these have been going, so far, and...anything that's changes, anything that's changed or is new or out of the ordinary with this process?

Jeffrey> So this will, you know, the Friday night execution that will be the third execution of six inmates who have run out of appeals.

They did allow a little holiday pause.

The, there was a second execution was in November, and then they gave everybody a little bit of time over Christmas and New Year's.

So we didn't have them every five weeks like they're scheduled, but after this one, we'll have one five weeks later, five weeks later, five weeks later.

You know, South Carolina passed the shield law that allows, that allowed the state to be able to buy.

Now, we're just using one drug for a lethal injection.

It also keeps the members of the execution team in their roles and everything secret as well.

And so the, the three choices you choose lethal injection, electric chair or the new firing squad, which hasn't been used yet, was added a few years ago, but so far every inmate's chosen lethal injection, including the one that's happening on Friday.

And so, you know, it's been, while the protocol has changed to just one drug, you know, the executions have looked similar to the ones that I covered before the 13 year pause.

There have been a lot of legal challenges, but none successful so far.

And there's another one right now, the... Marion Bowman, who's the next inmate to be executed, is, saying that the South Carolina needs to tell them more about the lethal injection drug, but that's also, you know, that's gone up to the Supreme Court.

And right now it has been denied every step of the way and probably likely won't he won't get that hearing and that, you know, they weren't they're not going to stop this execution either.

Gavin> And as you said, we're going to see more of those play out in the coming weeks if things continue the way are.

Jeffrey> Yeah, but then it's interesting because once we get done with this set, you know, most of the people on death row, I think there's a maybe about 30 or 35 right now, are there from crimes that were before 2010, a long time ago.

So that's been that the thing is, South Carolina's only added, I think, three inmates to death row in the last...in over a decade.

So capital punishment, you know, sending people to death row has just slowed down.

Gavin> Gotcha.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I think we'll leave it there.

I know there's so much to, to talk about, so much to, continue watching.

Of course, we've only wrapped up the first month here of the legislative session.

We got a couple more to go.

Maayan> Feels like month five already.

>> And they took last week off, too.

So there's so much more to cover.

But we'll be doing that with Maayan Schechter with South Carolina Public Radio and the Associated Press' Jeffrey Collins.

And I'm Gavin Jackson, for South Carolina ETV.

Be well, South Carolina.

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